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Why do people think music's subjective?
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Alpha Centauri
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
OK. Here's the deal...

...at the end of the day, you always see the same bands in the top whatever of greatest music/band/album lists. As a collective, humans KNOW what music is great and what should be left out.

The big ones being there - Dylan, Beatles, Nirvana, Zeppellin, Hendrix - regardless of what order or frequency, show a sense of objectivity. The ones that are sure to be left out (and I think we know what those could be) just strengthen that point.


How utterly pathetic, they show no objectivity at all.

They show that there are names that can be reliably namedropped for instant credibility, musicians that nobody feel they dare oppose. Me? I don't give a shit. I think Pink Floyd are nothing special, I really like The Beatles but I think they're overrated, I don't and never have been a HUGE fan of Dylan, I love Zeppelin and Hendrix, Nirvana I like a lot. There are people who may suck off every band in that list, or people that hate them all. Neither are wrong, one is just less credible.

It doesn't prove anything. Greatest album/artist lists are never OFFICIAL. It's a tally of many opinions. It's not fact, it's opinion.

It strengthens no point, it weakens it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It's almost as objective as saying Brazil, Argentina, England, and France are consistently the top footballing nations of the world. It's more or less fact. In both cases, the numbers prove it.


Hahaha, you foolish idiot.

It's a fact that Brazil are the most successful footballing nation ever because you can prove it. PROVE IT. It's a fact if you can prove it. If you asked me to prove how Brazil are more successful than England I could list all their footballing achievements and player achievements.

If you asked me who plays the more enjoyable football, I couldn't prove that it's Brazil, because they aren't factually entertaining. Not everybody watches them and is entertained.

If you can't prove that one music is better than another, it's not a fact, and you can't, nobody can. So the only desperate point you have is the childish and lame rhetoric that "It might be possible.", even though it's not. Because someone can ALWAYS say "I disagree". I don't like the fact that I can't prove Radiohead to be better than Britney Spears, but it doesn't matter to me, because it doesn't need to be a fact to be obvious.

Even if it was a fact, so what? It doesn't mean people will automatically start liking great bands.

If you can't grasp that, take your ball and go home, because you've got to the point of ignoring objective fact in favour of trying to say opinion is fact.

-AC


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Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Feb 4th, 2007 at 05:08 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 05:01 AM
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EPIIIBITES
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Oh please...relax.

It's fun when people don't actually read your posts.

Don't make this comparison into something it's not. I'm not comparing goals vs. weeks at #1

I never said anything about album sales, and I said it's "almost" as objective as saying Brazil, Argentina...

People who usually enter what bands will and will not appear on lists, more likely have that job because they have SOME sort of idea of what good music is, and a wealth of musical knowledge (probably more than you and I) to compare that with.

It's no coincidence that you see the same bands, albums or songs popping up over and over again. And all I'm saying is that the fact that these same artists end up appearing on lists numerous times is comparible to the fact that the same foootballing nations end up being considered the best numerous times.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Stupidest analogy I've seen/heard in my entire lifetime.


It doesn't surprise me that some people don't undertand this analogy, but at the end of the day, the same objectivity that applies to football (or whatever) can more or less be applied to music. Crap is crap...I'm sure this is very "new" thinking to some of you.


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 06:33 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 06:19 AM
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Alpha Centauri
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
People who usually enter what bands will and will not appear on lists, more likely have that job because they have SOME sort of idea of what good music is, and a wealth of musical knowledge (probably more than you and I) to compare that with.


Which is still opinion, just a more credible one in the area of knowledge, not any closer to being factual than the moon being made of cheese.

That's all it is.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It's no coincidence that you see the same bands, albums or songs popping up over and over again. And all I'm saying is that the fact that these same artists end up appearing on lists numerous times is comparible to the fact that the same foootballing nations end up being considered the best numerous times.


Yes, that's precisely what it is, it's coincidence. Some of these acclaimed albums turn out to be actually good anyway, like Radiohead or The Beatles, but they're not factually good just because they keep coming up.

Stop being an idiot.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It doesn't surprise me that some people don't undertand this analogy, but at the end of the day, the same objectivity that applies to football (or whatever) can more or less be applied to music. Crap is crap...I'm sure this is very "new" thinking to some of you.


You win stupidest new music forum member.

Brazil keep getting that accolade because you can factually prove what they've done better than anyone else, how much more they've won, what they've won etc. It's not comparable to anything, because it's totally different.

If The Beatles win best album ever for Abbey Road 10 times in a row, you still can't factually prove that it's a great album. You cannot.

On the other hand, it's not up to me to decide how many times Brazil have factually won championships.

FACT: Brazil are the most successful footballing nation ever.

OPINION: Brazil are the best team to watch.

Do you see how it works?

FACT: The Beatles are a very highly regarded band.

OPINION: The Beatles are definitely a great band.

You cannot prove that one piece of music is factually better than another. What part of that do you not get?

Polls mean nothing. They're just published groups of opinion, nothing factual about it.

Now I suggest you start to actually grasp points.

-AC


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 06:33 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You cannot prove that one piece of music is factually better than another.


Maybe...but it's still true.


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 06:52 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 06:47 AM
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Led Zeppelin = Brazil

Nickleback = Madagascar

laughing

Might sound ridiculous, but it's so true!


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 06:51 AM
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Led Zeppelin = Stella Artois

Nickleback = Budweiser

big grin

...anyone got any more??


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 06:58 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 06:54 AM
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Dr. Leg Kick
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deathblow
Like all art, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to music. It's all personal opinion. One person's crap is another person's good, that's how human beings work.
speaking of crap. i heard there's a museum somewhere in the world that displays dog feces as art. anyone heard about this?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 06:55 AM
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Nellinator
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Led Zeppelin = Stella Artois

Nickleback = Budweiser

big grin

...anyone got any more??

I like Nickelback, but I know your using them to make fun of Budweiser. Not cool. Budweiser is one of the better beers.

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:05 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nellinator
I like Nickelback, but I know your using them to make fun of Budweiser. Not cool. Budweiser is one of the better beers.


Budweiser is not one of the better beers. It is absolutely reviled the world over, mostly because of its ridiculous popularity. Being a Canadian though, I know we like to drink piss.

And there's far better beers than Stella, but for the purposes of popularity I used those two.


Oh, I got one!!!

Led Zeppelin = Robert DeNiro

Nickleback = Keannu Reeves

laughing


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 07:17 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:09 AM
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I'm using seemingly ridiculous anaolgies here to prove a very reasonable point. Crap is crap, and quality is quality, no matter how you slice it.

Somebody try it...it's fun!!


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:15 AM
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Alpha Centauri
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Maybe...but it's still true.


True = Truth. Truth = Fact.

So, once again, no.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Led Zeppelin = Brazil

Nickleback = Madagascar


There's a whole country of people who would support Madagascar against Brazil.

There's people who prefer Budweiser over Stella, people who prefer Nickleback over Led Zeppelin.

It's opinion and preference. If they prefer Nickleback over Zeppelin, it means they have a shit opinion to you or I, not that they are factually wrong.

Please get this into your bulletproof skull.

I challenge you right now, prove that a piece of music is better, or retract your statement. None of that "I can't prove it but it might be true.".

You can't, so stop acting like it's true. Let's close the book:

o·pin·ion

1. a belief or judgement that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

You have a belief and judgement resting on grounds insufficient to produce a certainty.

That's number one, the reason you have number one is because of number two. A personal view, attitude or appraisal.

-AC


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Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Feb 4th, 2007 at 07:31 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:26 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's a whole country of people who would support Madagascar against Brazil.

There's people who prefer Budweiser over Stella, people who prefer Nickleback over Led Zeppelin.

What a waste of a post. Saying the same stuff..."People liking something makes it good" (and I knew there'd be people like you out there, that's why I made a point of mentioning how that's wrong thinking in my very first post). You don't get it.


Led Zeppelin = Apocalypse Now

Nickleback = Pearl Harbour

laughing laughing


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 07:49 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:44 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's opinion and preference. If they prefer Nickleback over Zeppelin, it means they have a shit opinion to you or I, not that they are factually wrong.

I disagree. They're wrong. Accept it.


Led Zeppelin = Me

Nickleback = You


stick out tongue


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 07:50 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:45 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I challenge you right now, prove that a piece of music is better, or retract your statement.

This sounds awful familiar. Your arguments are gettin' kinda stale, although they've been decent until recently.

How about a familiar answer...

I can't prove it.

Same way I can't prove killing is wrong...but it is...and I think that can be proven by something greater than you or I.


Led Zeppelin = Jeopardy!

Nickleback = Deal or No Deal!


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 08:08 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 07:53 AM
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Led Zeppelin = Dr. No

Nickleback = Dr. Evil

laughing


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 08:35 AM
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Led Zeppelin = Laughter

Nickleback = Diarrhoea


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 08:39 AM
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Led Zeppelin = Top Sirloin Steak

Nickleback = Diarrhoea


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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Feb 4th, 2007 at 08:48 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 08:41 AM
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Tptmanno1
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Jesus Christ...
Lets just accept that you have no idea what you are talking about and move on.


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 09:18 AM
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Led Zeppeilin = What I'm talking about

Nickleback = What the last dude just said...and diarrhoea


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 09:22 AM
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Tptmanno1
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You really arn't helping yourself, you know that right?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2007 09:25 AM
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