Wrong, Goku also lacks strength & speed against Superman. When has Goku ever shown the ability to hurl a planet across the universe? Never. When has Goku ever gotten from one place to another in a milli-second (without using Instant Transmission)? Never. Goku lacks a lot of things compared to Superman & has absolutely no chance of defeating Superman.
I love how you Superman fanboys don't even read what I had said and just repeat the same crap over and over like a broken record. Seriously, its embarrassing. Magee seems to be able to comprehend how powerful Goku really is now, I'm glad at least one of the Supes supporters actually reads what the other side of the debate is saying and understands it. The rest of you just go "ZOMG NOOOZZZ SUPES IS R TEH 1337z0r!111" and don't even attempt to understand anything.
Plus, what Superman are you talking about here? Because this is Post-Crisis, not Pre-Crisis. Pre-Crisis Superman is the epitome of Stupid hyperbole and inconsistent ridiculousness. i.e. throwing planets across the universe. Were talking about Current Superman, not Superman 1million, not Superman Prime, and not Pre-Crisis Superman.
Actually No, I was talking about Z Goku not GT Goku. Z Goku can only stay as a SSJ3 for half hour at best in max power. Didn't you see the final fight with Kid Buu? But Goku seems to be able to sustain SSJ4 for much much longer periods despite it being a far more powerful form.
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Last edited by ((The_Anomaly)) on Mar 20th, 2007 at 08:44 PM
Hmmmm, I did not know that and I've seen the final fight, but then again its been about 3 years now since I've seen it. All I remember was Goku was SSJ3 then like a few mins later back to normal state.
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When does Gokou ever hold back? Seriously Gokou always goes all out against people. Freeza, Cell, Buu. Everyone of them he didn't hold back on. Fat Buu he admits he could have beaten but he's going all out against Kid Buu and loosing. Just because he has planet destroying blast doesn't mean he has planet destroying punches. Also he never aims the blasts at the ground so he doesn't have to worry about destroying the Earth with them. He either hits his target or it ends up going upwards.
We know Superman holds back because he doesn't just fight planetary threats all the time. He takes out little things like thieves also. Superman in a rage has also shown he can split moons with pure strength, and has destroy moon sized asteroids with his heat vision.
When The Z warriors fight Nappa and Vegeta, when they were weaker, the small area they fight in feels the shockwaves of their punches. During the Cell fight, can't remember clearly was it the punches of the blasts that knocked away the camera men? Meanwhile also a much weaker Superman who fought Doomsday made shockwaves that were felt cities away. Both have gotten a whole lot stronger since those days though true.
Superman after coming back to life comments on how much stronger he's gotten in on issue where Lobo comes looking for him when he not only knocks Lobo into space but pushes a large ship out of the atmosphere. Superman has flown to a different galaxy after hearing Kyle Rayner ask for help though it never really states how much time it takes but its fast enough to save Kyle..then he just leaves. Lois also states that he spent years learning how to control his speed in Earth's atmosphere so he doesn't destroy nothing right before he saves her by plowing through a ship she's held at gunpoint on, while also being able to put cotton in her ears, which he tells her so she wouldn't be affected by the sonic boom, and has also taken the guns of the people.
Gokou got stronger by training but he's never shown to be able to punch a person he's fighting anywhere near close from the ground into space. He has moved fast enough to seem like he's sitting in one place though and while its hard to judge speed in DBZ world Gotenks flies around the world a couple of times, and so does Pan. Well Pan only once as a child but it never really states how long it took for either if I remember right.
If Gokou at SSJ could survive a planet exploding then why did Trunks, Goten, Gohan, Piccolo, and Tien die when Buu blew up Earth? If he could at SSJ during the Freeza saga why couldn't any of them during Buu saga. I can understand why he died when Cell exploded on King Kai's planet because Cell released an large amount of energy outwards and that is probably what did it but Buu hit the Earth making it explode. Even if they were unconcious that doesn't make their endurance lower. Why didn't Kaioshin just teleport right back down and retrieve them afterwards before Buu reformed?
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I watch DBZ all the time so I understand how powerful DBZ characters but they aren't as strong as any form of Superman. Also, whenever there is a form of Superman that completely outclasses Goku, it's ridiculous as you just stated. But when you claim that Goku can destroy a planet "thousands" of times over, that's not ridiculous. So, who's the real fanboy here? Also, I created this thread so I can choose any Superman I want it to be to be in this debate. You don't tell me what to debate in my own thread.
So...you think throwing a planet across the universe is more reasonable then being able to destroy a planet thousands of times? Wtf? Anyways, whats your point exactly? Pre-Crisis Superman, Superman Prime and Superman one million would beat Goku. I'm not arguing that. Post-Crisis Superman (current mainstream Supes) however is a different story, Goku has a chance against Post-Crisis Supes and a good one at that. As well you did "choose" what incarnation you wanted. You chose Smallville Clark. But when we started talking about actual Superman no one specified, and so it becomes by default the current version of Superman. Also, you apparently "watch" DBZ but that does not mean you really know how powerful they actually are. but whatever, you can live with your denial. Magee seems to get it, and if I can convince one Superman fanboy of the truth then all my efforts are worth it in the end, so I don't really care.
Because it wasn't the earths explosion that killed them, it was Buu's blast that killed them. Plus even if they did survive none of them can survive in space, they need air to breathe. Nevertheless Buu's blast destroyed them not the planets actual explosion.
i was kind of hoping for the next episode to have more stuff going on with Clark and Lana and stuff. this episode looks really weird, i haven't been looking forward to it which is really rare for me
Buu's blast didn't engulf the planet. It hit the planet away from the one KOed. It was going towards Gokou who was to far away from Goten, Trunks, and the rest of them to get to them. Its another reason why I don't believe Gokou's all that fast compared to Superman. Who is to know where it actually landed but it didn't land on or next to Goten, Trunks, Gohan, and Piccolo. I believe more that it was the explosion of Earth that killed them not the blast. And Tien wasn't anywhere close to where the battle was at so if he could survive a planet explosion he'd have been a body out in space right? When Buu reforms nothing is there. No bodies or anything.
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First, what you said doesn't make sense. That big blast you saw when the earth exploded...that was Buu's blast. Pretty simple. It didn't need to hit them.
Second, Space is big, explosions move things, and Buu can reform wherever he feels like, yet for some reason you think everyone would be clusterd together in a nice pile in the middle of space?
Plus Tien cant survive a planet explosion, hes no where near Frieza's powerlevel and not even in the same universe as Goku's power.
The blast just destroyed Earth. It made the Earth explode plus Buu reforms right where Earth was. And I never said they'd be cluttered in one spot but if the Earth exploding wouldn't kill them they'd still have bodies out there and they were thinking Buu was dead if they could survive the planet exploding then they should be alive until they ya know can't breathe and die from no oxygen. Akira hasn't really been known to put any physics into DBZ either. The moon didn't affect much at all when it was destroyed so I doubt them being in space would affect them the same way it would in real life. That's all I'm saying. The blast made the planet explode. It didn't just engulf the planet and vaporize it. It hit the planet and then planet exploded. Trunks, Goten, Gohan, and Piccolo wasn't in the path of the blast so I still say its the planets explosion that killed them.
As for Tien he was nowhere even near the blast so the planet explosion would have been the thing that killed him. To be able to block a blast from Buu and to stall 2nd form Cell he's got to have a high power level. And unlike Krillen and Yamcha he actually trains. It never states power levels after Freeza saga so how do you actually know his power never gets anywhere near Freeza's? Or surpasses it? He'd still not be any help against main villains even with a power level as high as Freeza. It's been nearly ten years since Freeza was around before Buu shows up also. Thats a lot of time to get in some training. They got from in the low hundreds to low thousands in only a year for the fight with the saiyans.
No I didn't watch the video I just got out the manga I have of the blast.
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Last edited by Kento on Mar 22nd, 2007 at 10:37 PM
How the **** are you going to tell what I understand? If it's one thing I hate, it's when someone tell's me what I understand. Are you in my damn head? Hell to the **** no. Also, who the **** is in denial because of how powerful a damn fictional character is? I'm not going to lose any sleep over it because it's fictiona lcharacters. You seem to believe that you're hurting someone's feelings by posting that bullshit. Well, guess what, any version of Superman can beat Goku. If Goku's so fast, why couldn't he nab Gohan, Goten & Trunks & IT away? And if he was so fast, why couldn't he have made it to his spaceship in time at the end of the Freeza saga? Also, if Goku's so strong, why in CANON can't he sustain huge levels of power for a while? Superman's body can & his power just keeps coming & coming. Also, Goku has more Ki control than Superman but physically, he's no where near Superman's level. Superman would mangle Goku. Sure, DBZ character's are strong with their ENERGY beams but truthfully, physically, they aren't very strong.
Yet you still can't provide any proof that Gokou is faster without IT, which he'd be hard pressed to use before Superman could hit him, than Superman or stronger physically.
Nothing I have ever seen, though I've not seen all of GT or DB, make me think Gokou has a chance.
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Mar 20th, 2007 08:07 PM
Also, I created this thread so I can choose any Superman I want it to be to be in this debate. You don't tell me what to debate in my own thread.
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