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Tyson vs Ali
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Tyson Wins 6 28.57%
Ali Wins 15 71.43%
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Tyson vs Ali
Started by: Thundar

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Thundar
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Question Tyson vs Ali

I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 03:11 PM
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P23
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ali by far. because 1 hes SANE! and 2nd if you see his matches when he was younger he would go school of hard knox on tyson. i caught a few matches of alis on espn classics actually lastnight.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 03:26 PM
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Soleran
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Ali is a tactical boxer if of course Ali was given boxing tapes and such and time to adjust his style I would give it to Ali.

Tyson's stamina was always suspect and it beat im more often then not in fighting. Tyson was a bruiser to bad that's hard for the body in longer fights.

Unless Tysons gets a 90 second KO I don't see him winning.

Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 03:33 PM
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Mr Parker
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No contest.Ali wins.I used to ponder this myself who would win if those two met in the same eras and in the same age but that wondering gave way quickly when Tyson got knocked out by an unimpressive fighter named Buster Douglas who couldnt even defend his title and got knocked out by Ivander Holyfieid in his next bout.Ali would NEVER have allowed himself to get knocked out by Buster Douglas.I diasagree.I believe that the opponents that Tyson fought would have been pushovers for Ali.Ali fought much tougher competition than Tyson ever did.Tyson could never have lasted more than 4 or 5 rounds with people like Ernie shavers,George Forman,ect ect.Tyson showed that if you get to him early,he couldnt last late in the rounds and he would wear down.No contest.Ali wins easily.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 04:47 PM
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Lord Coal
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The only modern(ish) heavyweight that would stand a chance of beating Ali is Lennox Lewis.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 07:03 PM
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jaden101
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well they both had 1 thing in common...they never knew when to quit...to both their detriments...

they were probably as poles apart as any 2 heavyewight fighters could be

they both have very good records but both had defeats in their prime...Ali to Frazier and Tyson to Douglas...

we should be looking to the future of the heavyweights...and the man who i think will dominate is Roman Greenberg

both had a gap in their records when they would have possibly been at their true peak...both in jail

Tyson was an animal and came out looking to destroy his opponent in the 1st round and Ali prefered to dance his opponents around the ring until they were breathing out their arses

you have to look at what Tyson achieved given his comparison to other heavyweights...he was way too short and his reach was way too short every single one of his opponents in his pro career had a height, weight and reach advantage...he still because WBC champion at 20 and undisputed world champion at 21

its all ifs and buts with this debate...IF tyson got Ali in the corner...IF the fight went the distance...

its pretty pointless...they were both awesome yet flawed fighters....


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 07:30 PM
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Lord Coal
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
we should be looking to the future of the heavyweights...and the man who i think will dominate is Roman Greenberg


Well it certainly won't be Audley Harrison!


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 07:39 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Coal
Well it certainly won't be Audley Harrison!


hahaha...true...Audleeeeyyyyy the glaaaassss jaaawwww.....Haaarrrissssooooonnnn


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 08:36 PM
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Thundar
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Coal
The only modern(ish) heavyweight that would stand a chance of beating Ali is Lennox Lewis.


laughing

Lennox Lewis?

The same man who got KO'd in the first round by Oliver Mccall? Who couldn't even KO an emotionally scatterbrained Mccall who was high on crack during their rematch..

You're definitely a Brit.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 09:57 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Ali fought much tougher competition than Tyson ever did.Tyson could never have lasted more than 4 or 5 rounds with people like Ernie shavers,George Forman,ect ect.Tyson showed that if you get to him early,he couldnt last late in the rounds and he would wear down.No contest.Ali wins easily.


Tyson fought guys who were much much more conditioned than the opponents Ali fought, such as Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith, Trent Berbick, and even Michael Spinks. All of these guys were decent fighters, as they all had mostly undefeated records before fighting Tyson. Most of them had never even been knocked down before fighting Tyson. Mike made these guys look like amateurs. Really he did. And it wasn't just because of his punching power, it was because he could fight.

Tyson was a very patient fighter under Damato and even shortly after Damato's passing he demonstrated a helluva alot of stamina when fighting the big guns. His left hook and uppercut combinations were scary, as he moved so fast when throwing them that often times people couldn't see them coming. And when he did go the distance, he was generally looking pretty refreshed after the 10 round bouts.

When Don King completely took over the helms though, and he fired his old trainer, that's when Tyson started trying to knock everyone out in the first few rounds. This is why he started to tire so easily in later bouts. He would get himself punch drunk, since King had convinced him he was unbeatable, thus making Mike forget to box and causing him to try to brawl with everyone. In addition to him demonstrating a now lackluster fighting style, he also cut down his training regiment significantly..often times barely training but for a month or two before bouts.

During this time Mike also seemed to think he was truly made out of "Iron", and decided to have a more relaxed stance during the major bouts, not covering his face as often as he used to. There's only so many punches anyone can take before they start to wear down, and Mike was no exception. He would take the heavy punches head on when fighting opponents during King's management, often times not guarding himself like he used to do so well during the Damato days.

All of his losses can be attributed to this punch drunk - wild fighting style, which enabled many of his latter opponents to get him mentally frustrated by not being able to get the quick knockout. None of the guys who beat him really wanted to fight with him toe to toe anyway. They kept on hugging him every minute, grabbing his arms, stuff that was clearly demonstrative of their fear of getting hit by him(The Holyfield fights were prime examples of this, as Holyfield did nothing but hold Mike and Headbutt him most of the fight).

Had Tyson fought Ali or any other boxer that beat him during his prime and under Damato, they would have had little ability to overcome the powerful quick, and extremely intimidating Tyson. As announcer Larry Merchant once described him.."Mike is like a hurricane. You can predict it, but what can you really do to stop it?"


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Last edited by Thundar on Feb 28th, 2007 at 10:25 PM

Old Post Feb 28th, 2007 10:22 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Coal
The only modern(ish) heavyweight that would stand a chance of beating Ali is Lennox Lewis.


Below is a clip of Mr. Lewis demonstrating his legendary granite chin, and unparalleled fighting skills..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlS0JnUBiU



EDIT: Can't embed videos..damn


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2007 06:09 PM
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Rogue Jedi
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Ali would win. he would not be dumb enough to get caught by one of tysons killer uppercuts. he would wear tyson out and knock him out in about 9 rounds.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2007 06:13 PM
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BobbyD
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Re: Tyson vs Ali

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?


I give the odds to Ali.....because he's the smarter, more tactical/technical fighter. By no means, does this mean Tyson does not stand a chance. Simply put, when Tyson lands a bomb, you go down, there are no exceptions. But, I see Ali frustrating Mikey...taking him out of his game, and then getting that one shot in that will KO Mike.

Ali 8/10 times.

Old Post Mar 2nd, 2007 09:13 PM
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Re: Tyson vs Ali

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?


ps I will admit (and agree to an extent on what you say that) Tyson COULD have been the greatest boxer ever, if he had had the right people surrounding him. erm

Old Post Mar 2nd, 2007 10:06 PM
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Mr Parker
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Re: Re: Tyson vs Ali

quote: (post)
Originally posted by BobbyD
I give the odds to Ali.....because he's the smarter, more tactical/technical fighter. By no means, does this mean Tyson does not stand a chance. Simply put, when Tyson lands a bomb, you go down, there are no exceptions. But, I see Ali frustrating Mikey...taking him out of his game, and then getting that one shot in that will KO Mike.

Ali 8/10 times.


Yeah Ali would have been way too smart to get too close to Tyson to let him take him down.He had smarts where Tyson, he was just a brutal puncher.Ali would have frustrated him too much with his smarts like he did with Forman letting him punch him and take the punches wearing him down in late rounds.Plus as Douglas proved,if you can avoid Tyson in the early rounds,he couldn't last past the early rounds.Tyson didnt face near the competition as Ali did contrary to what the thread starter of this thread thinks.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2007 11:10 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ali would win. he would not be dumb enough to get caught by one of tysons killer uppercuts. he would wear tyson out and knock him out in about 9 rounds.


exactly.Ali like i said,Ali was way too smart a fighter to be dumb enough to get caught by one of Tysons upper cuts.Ali eventually would knock him out in later rounds everytime.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2007 11:12 PM
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Tyson had great punching power, precision, speed and his weaving peek-a-boo style meant great defense and ability to counter attack. on top of all that he threw a lot of punches (i mean when he was with Damato not the later Tyson) while still weaving and moving to avoid any retaliation.
ali had great speed but his defense always was weak. most people don't know this but ali actualy had bad defense. his hands were always down and he never covered up. he jsut moved around. even when Archie Moore adviced him to work on his defense, ali paid no heed and said he was better because he could move around. however, you can't move around for ever in a boxing bout and ali paid the price on many occassions. also ali had the problem of gloating a lot. tyson never gloated much (again during his time with damato) and remained focused.
in fact Ali lost many of his bouts due to gloating or underestimating his opponent. Leon spinks was one of them. aside from that Ken Norton and Joe Frazier were amongst the others.
while people always bring up Foreman-Ali bout to predict what would happen with Tyson-Ali, the fact of the matter is Tyson and Foreman were nothing alike.
Foreman was nowhere as fast as Tyson, he didn't throw a lot of punches, he wasn't great on defense, nor did he weave like Tyson. power is comparable but Tyson threw faster, more accurate punches that were of comparable power (if not more) and also threw a lot of them. if anything, the best way to compare this fight would actually be Frazier-Ali.
Frazier beat him the first time.
lost the second time.
lost the third time.....though "lost" cuz he was forced to stop due to cuts. interestingly Ali PASSED OUT while he was in the corner (during the time the refree was talking to Joe and asking him to stop). ali also later commented that if Frazier hadn't given up, he was ready to at that time.

not to mention that ali has been floored by many opponents, some who were not even that strong punchers. what makes people say that he won't be floored by Tyson? Ali never faced anyone with such a good combination of speed-power-defense and ability like Tyson. Frazier had great stamina, power but his defense wasn't even HALF as good as Tyson's and still Frazier pwned him. so what happens if he is up against someone with more speed, more power, better defense than Frazier.

the only thing goin for Ali is that he had the "heart". ali was great because he was durable. Ali can outlast Tyson but only because of Ali's durablity. Were Tyson to have ali's "heart" Tyson would probably even defeat my favorite boxer, Marciano...but that's another story.

if both fighters are to face each other in their prime, I'd say 50-50 chance for them both....or maybe 55-45 in Tyson's favor. but ask me who i will cheer for and it'll definitly be alismile

~The Invincbile Sado-sama

Old Post Mar 6th, 2007 09:46 AM
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StyleTime
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Couldn't have said it better myself Sado22. Tyson was a master of the peek a boo defense under Damato. People are underestimating his skill level. Tyson wasn't just some street brawler and he has a very good chance of beating Ali. Everyone always likes to act as though Ali has never lost before.


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Last edited by StyleTime on Mar 6th, 2007 at 04:04 PM

Old Post Mar 6th, 2007 04:02 PM
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BobbyD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
Couldn't have said it better myself Sado22. Tyson was a master of the peek a boo defense under Damato. People are underestimating his skill level. Tyson wasn't just some street brawler and he has a very good chance of beating Ali. Everyone always likes to act as though Ali has never lost before.


Indeed. But, there is one word-actually person who could have changed/maintained what would have been the great career of Tyson, and many here have mentioned it......Damato.

Had he lived longer, I don't even think this would have even been a debate.

Old Post Mar 6th, 2007 05:16 PM
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Lord Evolution
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Tyson would win in 3 rounds.

Looking at the way both of them fought and how much force Tyson had and how much he could put into one punch, I just couldn't see Ali lasting long.

We are talking primes here right?

Tyson > Ali

Old Post Mar 6th, 2007 05:39 PM
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