Ganon doesn't compare to someone who can destroy era's with just a thought.. Link beating Ganon due to PIS.. yeah that could be believable
Squall and friends beating a god who destroys entire eras with a just thought? Mmm that doesn't seem like something Square would write, you sure she actually gained that power when she fought the party? Maybe the party stopped her BEFORE she was able to reach that power.
Adel was still awekening/recovering. After she was fully awake/recovered, she would destroy everything(not with only the power of her mind, but she could do it anyway).
Ah so she never quite got that power, she was killed before that.. kinda similar to Sephiroth could've absorbed the lifestream if he wasn't defeated before that.
Actually, Adel have that power. She didn't use it in the game, because she wasn't 100% when the party fought her. She was sealed during years and years, after all.
It's like when Zack broke free of the Mako tube in Nibel, after 3 years of being inside it. He wasn't 100% at the moment, so he needed to rest before beginning his journey to Midgar.
But Ultimecia absorbed ALL the power of ALL sorceresses in history. And that means she CAN destroy an entire era. And that is JUST ONE of her powers.
Ultimecia is what Sephiroth wants to be when he grow up.
Yeah. I was totally impressed when she used a machine to go back in time and when the party had to help her get Time Compression started. Not even Kuja kinda helping with Ultimecia manipulating them into helping her. They just had to because she failed repeatedly to accomplish it on her own.
At the end of the day she's less interesting than Kefka, Yu Yevon, Kuja, Sephiroth...She still beats out Exdeath though.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
1st, Ultimecia manipulated the party. She made Rinoa enter in a state of coma, forcing Squall to take her to the Space Station, where she could free Adel.
2nd, this is a FIGHT. Who cares if she can manipulate people or not. It's about her powers we have to talk about.
Thankyou for giving your opinion about something that don't have anything to do with this thread.
So Ultimecia DID have the power to destroy entire eras with a thought when she lost to the party? If so, then i'm truely dissapointed in Square-Enix for writing a story that makes no sense.
Essentially, Ultimecia failing was do more to Fate than anything. The theory I've seen that makes the most sense is that Ultimecia, while technically in one of her most powerful forms, was at her absolute weakest while facing the party because she was expending the energy to complete Time Compression and absorb all of time and space. It's not like Fate fired off giant laser beams that killed her or anything, but it's the idea that the party, through a series of events, was put into a position where they would face her at her weakest moment.
Aside from that, if Rinoa had some kind of control over her powers by that point, she could theoretically give the FFVIII party something to hit Ultimecia with, seeing as both of them contain the power of every Sorceress to ever exist (Ultimecia has it because she's the last sorceress of her time, and Rinoa inherited her powers from Edea, who inherited them from Ultimecia).
Seifer is one of the three main characters taking up the cover of the game.
..the epic opening of the game features him fighting Squall.
All through the game we're told Squall and Seifer are destined to fight.
We have one final boss fight with him, he throws Rinoa to Adel and that's all she wrote except for the ending.
No dramatic showdown between teh two rivals, no even rmeote closure or clue on what happened between the last two times we see him...
It was bullshit writing by Square.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
When are we told that they're destined to fight? I don't recall a match between the two ever referred to as "destined." They certainly referred to a legendary SeeD destined to fight Ultimecia, but I never recall anything of the sort regarding Seifer.
Blegh. I agree with the lack of dramatic showdown. That was pretty much the thing that I was waiting for throughout the entire game (Since he became a villain, anyway). All I get is a boss fight (Not even one-on-one...Heck, not even that much if you got Odin)?
I think you're exagerating. We fight Seifer more than enough times IMO. You fight him by your lonesome by the end of disc 1--in which Squall pretty much gets even with Seifer. Then we see Squall and Seifer engage against each other as leaders of their respective Gardens. Then they fight by the end of disc 2 and we see a final showdown in disc 3 where he finally comes to his senses once FUJIN actually talks to him about how much he has changed. Seifer was never the main enemy, he was just Squall's rival and he played that role perfectly, even becoming Edea's knight as Squall became Rinoa's. By the end of FFVIII we see Seifer fishing peacefully with his 2 best friends and we see him actually smile when he sees Balamb Garden floating by.
Dr. Kadowaki: Seifer is with them, right? You said yourself. There's no way you can run from him... It's kind of like your destiny to face him. ...Looks like it's now or never! You've come this far already. What is there to think about? You're not gonna run away are you?
Besides, if you examine the relationship as closely as I do and write an essay on the topic like I did, you see very clearly how the two are destined...Seifer's dream twisted by Fate comes to fruition but, unlike his dream, the roles are reversed with Squall as the Sorceress' Knight.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Last edited by Pyron_Knight on Apr 13th, 2008 at 02:29 PM
Quistis: I guess I was right. You and Seifer are in a class of your own. You both have amazing strength and potential.
This is my documentation of the character development, or lack thereof, of two characters from Square’s game Final Fantasy VIII. Obviously the characters are Squall Leonhart and Seifer Almasy. As you can see, their faces, along with Rinoa Heartily’s, are featured most prominently on the cover of the game. Coupled with the dramatic opening FMV of the game you might guess these three are closely tied and will be of major importance through the story. You’d be right but not as right as you thought because at the end, the whole Squall/Seifer relationship was kicked to the curb and we had possibly the most anticlimactic conclusion in the history of video games.
But let’s get beyond that. I want to cover the course of these two character’s progression through the game and analyze the key point most fans identify: they are total opposites. Everything from their cards to the various official art of the two seem to support this theory. I maintain that, while they are definitely not alike, they start of relatively the same and it is their build-up in the game that makes them the opposites.
I hope I’ll be able to illustrate my point in this little write-up. Enjoy!
1. The Beginning
Quistis: Yes! That's right! Seifer was a kid who always needed to be the center of attention. But Squall always used to ignore him... But eventually they would end up fighting. Squall could have easily walked away from it, but always took up the challenge. He should've just ignored him, but Squall, almost in tears, would say... 'I gotta do my best by myself. Or else I won't be able to see Sis'.
This is basically the best summation of what we know of young Squall’s and Seifer’s early life. They were orphans, raised by their Matron Edea. Seifer sought confrontation as way to fill his own self-esteem void while Squall attempted to shut out everything for his own emptiness after he lost “Sis”. Perfect demonstration of the “polar opposites” in these two. Though it’s good to note even with Squall’s attempt at detachment, he would not back down from Seifer. He was compelled by something far stronger than he and so was probably Seifer. We’ll see this laid out more later on.
2. Disk 1
So now we actually get to the start of the game and well, where do Seifer and Squall stand emotionally?
Seifer: Who cares. This must be your first real battle. You scared?
Squall: ...I don't know. I try not to think about it.
Seifer: I love battles. I fear nothing. The way I look at it, as long as you make it out of a battle alive, you're one step closer to fulfilling your dream.
Squall: What!? Your dream?
Seifer: You have one too, don't you?
Squall: ...Sorry, but I'm gonna pass on that subject.
Not much emotional progression over those years in the Garden. Seifer still seeks out conflict as a means to an end while Squall simply backs away from it, denying the thoughts that might disturb his, perhaps not happy, but peaceable little world.
Seifer leads Squad B into Dollet but defies orders which results in his failing the SeeD Exam...
Seifer: D'you hear about the communication tower in Dollet? We would've been heroes if it weren't for that withdraw order.
Quistis: You were only looking for a fight.
Seifer forever seeks glory and appreciation and by all accounts someone of his notable skill should receive it. But that’s the ironic twist of the game that I’ll also go into further down the line.
One thing that should be stressed is that, however strained their relationship was, Squall and Seifer were not mortal enemies from the start.
Seifer: You want to wreak some havoc too, don't you?
Squall: It's a good opportunity to test my training. Thanks to you, I feel like I can take on anyone. Even if they do fight dirty, like you.
Seifer: You'll thank me when the time comes.
I wouldn’t say they are bosom buddies but they’re far from disliking one another at this point.
We also get a good look into Squall’s mind at this point where he has a little discussion with Quistis.
Squall: Are you done yet...? I don't wanna talk about it. What am I supposed to say about other people's problems?
Quistis: I'm not asking you to say anything. I just want you to listen.
Squall: Then go talk to a wall.
Quistis: Aren't there times when you want to share feelings with someone?
Squall: Everyone has to take care of themselves? Idon't want to carry anyone's burden.
Quistis: Squall. It's not like everyone can get by on their own, you know?
Squall: ...Says who?
An unlikeable jackass yes. Much like Seifer. This is why I say the two are actually pretty alike to start off with. Both simply output their own internal angst in different ways with Squall being stoically unfriendly while Seifer is “in-your-face” unfriendly.
So time passes and due to his violation of orders, Seifer was to be disciplined. Hearing about Squall’s and the other mission to go help Rinoa and the Forest Owls, he breaks out of Garden and attacks the President of Galbadia. Holding the man hostage, Seifer is confronted by “The Sorceress.”
???: ...Poor, poor boy...
Seifer: Stay away from me!
Edea: Such a confused little boy. Are you going to step forward? Retreat? You have to decide.
Seifer: Stay back!
Edea: The boy in you is telling you to come. The adult in you is telling you to back off. You can't make up your mind. You don't know the right answer. You want help, don't you? You want to be saved from this predicament.
Seifer: Shut up!
Edea: Don't be ashamed to ask for help. Besides, you're only a little boy.
Seifer: I'm not... Stop calling me a boy.
Edea: You don't want to be a boy anymore?
Seifer: I am not a BOY!
Edea: Come with me to a place of no return. Bid farewell to your childhood.
This little bit of dialog is key in examining my personal feelings on how Squall and Seifer are very different. These quotes in particular...
The boy in you is telling you to come. The adult in you is telling you to back off.
My childhood dream, fulfilled.
Seifer is not a little boy. He’s a full-grown man and that adult in him is best cited as logic or reality... Perhaps his natural instincts cautioning him to the danger. However, his “ROMANTIC dream”, his fantasy ever since he was a youth exerts a stronger pull than anything else and he heads off with Ultimecia/Edea.
Later on before the party reaches Galbadia, Squall has a very nice bit of insight that further distinguishes him from Seifer.
Squall: (Think what you want. ...Reality isn't so kind. Everything doesn't work out the way you want it to. That's why...As long as you don't get your
hopes up, you can take anything... You feel less pain. Anyway, whatever wish you have is none of my business
Squall’s darker view on reality is perhaps not accurate but far more grounded than Seifer’s “dream”. Seifer would throw away everything for that dream, the chance to escape the reality and find what he longed for. Squall will push away all notions of a dream, all notions of what isn’t reality out of fear those things will hurt him.
Squall also has an interesting though, disagreeing with the “Polar Opposites” idea...
Rinoa: Any kind of encouragement will make...
Squall: (That's just to ease your mind. Am I the only one who thinks that? No, I'm sure Seifer...)
So it seems, or at least Squall thins it is, that encouragement and perhaps hope itself are just bandaids on the gaping wound of reality. Oh god...I’m gonna throw up on the wieght of my own emo analogies...
Anyway, Squall seems to think Seifer would prefer a more grounded approach to things, like himself. Though I tend to disagree.
And the party progresses to Galbadia Garden where we hear Seifer was executed. Some interesting insight into both of them...
Quistis: I don't have any good memories of him. I've seen some troubled children, but he was beyond troubled. Well, he wasn't really a bad guy.
Rinoa: I...really liked him. He was always full of confidence, smart... Just by talking to him, I felt like I could take on the world.
Selphie: Your boyfriend?
Rinoa: I don't really know. I... I think I was in love. I wonder how he Felt...?
Selphie: Do you still like him?
Rinoa: If I didn't, I wouldn't be talking about it. It was last summer... I was 16. Lots of fond memories..
I always found this interesting. Rinoa lists Seifer’s confidence as an attractive quality and by all means Seifer was very confident, bordering on...or who are we kidding? He was very arrogant.
She does a complete 180 in putting her heart out to Squall who, again let’s not kid ourselves, is almost exactly like his father. Whatever his attitude to the contrary, Squall is as scared of rejection and loneliness as Laguna was with Julia.
Speaking on that...
Squall: (I liked him... wasn't really a bad guy... He was one of us... Seifer... You've just become just a memory. Will they... Will they talk about me this way if I die, too? Squall was this and that. Using past tense, saying whatever they want? So this is what death is all about......Not for me. I won't have it!!!)
Squall really just doesn’t want to be left behind...He may also be scared of death though that’s not the root of his issues and is more like a needle on the cactus of his torment.
Okay I’ll stop that now.
However, as we all know, Seifer is not dead. He’s alive, well, and literally “living the dream”.
Seifer: Well, this is how it turned out.
Squall: So, you've become the sorceress' lap dog?
Seifer: I preferred to be called her knight. This has always been my dream.
Squall defeats the new Sorceress’ Knight and is rewarded by being impaled by magical ice.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Last edited by Pyron_Knight on Apr 13th, 2008 at 02:27 PM
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