It's not popularity exactly, it's about status within the company. Popularity can definitely affects their status within the company, but it's their feats and showings that their status garners that rank them as high herald. For instance, Captain Marvel has been portrayed as Supes's equal or superior in virtually all of their encounters but he's still not the one called upon when the wheels of the Mageddon(or however the Hell you spell it) needs turning, blackholes need holding, or planets need pushing, Clark is.
The biggest difference between the heroes(villains are a little different) in the Mid and High Herald divisions is unquantifiable/impossible feats brought about by who the character is. When BRB drives off Galactus with a single Godblast, cracks the dome of a Celestial, helps repair a rift in space time with a punch, or lifts the Midgard Serpent he'll start to fit more into the High Herald category, but for now he's stuck playing second fiddle to Thor and will likely remain Mid Herald because of it.
What you're wanting is basically a "CBR Tier List" and while I'm not opposed to that kind of thing, that's not what this tier list is.
That's what I was trying to say Goob. Those who are high herald usually have a lot of "impossible" feats to back up their placement. Feats that usually break the herald category.
I would support Apocalypse, seeing as he has one-shotted people in his own tier....
Sorry buddy, but I just don't feel that Magneto is mid-herald quality.
Depends on how Surfer fights. If he actually goes to the limits that Marvel's placed on his power in the past and is still beaten it'd be a step in the right direction as far as bumping him goes(especially if he beats Galactus somehow too), but if Surfer's underwritten we'll just have to chalk it up to his jobbing or it being one of those "for the minority" wins. Firelord's got a win against Surfer, it doesn't mean that it should have happened that way.
Firelord's fight with the Surfer was very "new kid on the block" ish. That was also the case with Morg, as I'm sure you all remember. But to be honest, I would feel better if we had Stardust replaced in high herald. If Wally gets enough votes, it'd be nice to move stardust down.
I think you're talking about a different fight than I am, I'm talking about the fight between them in the last issue of Surfer vol. 3 when Firelord had been pretty well established. But other than that fight, I can't think of Firelord netting an actual win against Surfer so I'm a little confused as to which you're talking about exactly unless it was the time when Eros and Nova were both there(and that hardly counts as a win for Firelord IMO).
I must be mixing it up. I thought that Firelord and Surfer stalemated during their first fight? I didn't know that Firelord had any wins. When did they fight in Vol 3?
They didn't really stalemate thrie first fight, Surfer definitely had the upper-hand IMO. He absorbed a lot of Firelord's energy and when FL went to recharge Surfer overloaded him and had him helpless. Then Nova jumped in to rekindle Krill and Eros stepped in to calm Surfer down about the whole situation and that was pretty much the end of the fight.
In the last fight from vol. 3 though(happened in the last issue of the series), FL actually managed to grab a win over Norrin.
EDIT. I just checked the issue and it can be argued that the fight I was refering to could be called a stalemate since Firelord ended it with a cheap shot when Norrin had him down and was trying to talk some sense into him, but FL was the last one standing which is why I call it a win in his favor. Anyway here's the fight if you're really interested...
What you are attempting to explain is why certain few are listed in the top tier. This only servers to overcomplicate what needs to be judge and hold an idea on a pedestal. If in fact the tier placement is regarded by how a certain company regards its characters. Then their would not be contradicting choices, who are certainly not viewed as the “man” to look up to in the time of need, nor do they hold seemingly impossible feats such as; “a driving off a Galactus with a God Blast, crack the dome of a Celestial, repair space time rift with a punch, lifting midgard serpent.”
And yet even within over bloated criteria that you mention. Bill still holds cracking Galactus Armor (Which is comparable to tracking a Celestials Dome) or manipulating the Bio Energy of Ego the Planet. Both which seem to fit, “above” the Herald class showings.
Better yet, Bill is a consistent character with virtually no low or embarrassing moments since its introduction in 1983. Unlike many on the list?!? (Thor, Kyle, Hal, Surfer etc…).
Now if you don’t think Bill does not fit the criteria because he lacks versatility, that I can accept, a specific criteria with face value is being subjected. I disagree but I’ll accept it. What I cant accept this bullshit propaganda in the form of comic book politics.
Anyhow Bill for High Herald.
Members are going to be screaming PIS if Bill wins. Even if its within his ability to beat him.
I don't know why you're mad at me, I'm not the one who set the standards for the tier list. I'm not making this stuff up just to get a rise out of you, that's how the tier list works. It's an incredibly subjective system, but that's why we have a vote(because people don't always agree on who fits the criteria).
As for the people currently on the high herald tier list, the ones that I'm familiar definitely DO fit the criteria. And if there are any that don't, they don't belong in the tier(which is why I wouldn't opposed bumping down Stardust).
And for Bill's uber feats, Invisible Woman has also broke Galactus's armor. And Bill didn't really manipulate Ego's bio energy directly, he created a magnetic vortex that sucked it away. That's still impressive so don't think I'm saying that it's not, but it's hardly enough to qualify him for the high herald spot on it's lonesome given some of Ego's other low showings.
I don't feel angry. I am aggressive, I will give you that.
Notes:
1. This list is based off of total "power" in all its forms. Individual matchups might mean that someone in a lower tier could beat someone in a higher tier, but we're basing the list on general power levels, not individual matchups.
2. PIS should not be considered. CIS may be considered depending on the character, but will be dealt with on an individual basis.
3. If a character from the Marvel Ultimate universe is in the same tier as his 616 counterpart, it will be denoted with a (U) following the character's listing. Any variation in tiers from Ultimate to 616 will receive their own entry, and ultimate will be spelled in full.
Example:
Same Tier - Captain America (U)
Different - Shang Chi, Shang Chi (Ultimate)
4. Beyond myself, Validus or leonidas is in charge. First leo then Val have done a fine job overseeing the list to this point. Changes can be made without their consent, but they can act as advisors to the list concerning character placement and rules.
^^ Kindly point out where, company status was applied to the rule set? Wait, its unneeded because the criteria you speak of does not exist.
Though you speak of me forwarding a CBR Tier list. I am not the one god stricken, with the affirmation to pressure criteria with no face value. Yet on the other side of the Coin, there is an endless babble of needed solicitations coming in the form of impossible feats. This is vary CBRish.
I can go along and post slap fist replies. In regards to Ego, Celestials, and Galactus. But its not needed. Its only going to steer away from the subject. Is it not?
What it really comes down to it is this.
Bill is a consistent character, with virtually no low showings. He has a solid track record in all areas, plus extravagant wins over highly respectable characters. Only a handful of characters can get a majority win over Bill in the in the Mid Herald. Respectively Bill would do fine to give most a close match.
I don't know why it's not mentioned in the opening post, but that's the way it's set up. I don't remember when it was decided(it may have even been in the older thread), but I know it's been touched on since then. I couldn't find much when I did a quick such, but here's a quote from the poster formerly known as Validus(who's one of the three in charge of the list)...
And here's another from him saying how the tier's are based...
It's not my rule, it's THE rule. And going by the system in play, BRB doesn't qualify for High Herald anymore than Firelord does IMO.
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Jun 27th, 2009 07:50 PM
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