Ninjak- LM
Invincible/Omni-Man/Conquest- MH
Supreme (original)- MH
Thragg- HH
Jesus (TWD)- LS
Big Barda- LH
Max Lord- HM
Catman- MS
Deadman- LH
Grail- HH
Simon Baz/Jessica- MH
What new proposals are there? Where do we stand with the Cap issue?
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
I think the last thing I'm going to say on this issue is this...we can argue all day about whos more versatile Cap or Batman but the bottomline is this, they're not equal and Cap is like Deathstroke. Batman can't beat Deathstroke why would we think that he can beat Cap (yes there is one example but Batman got lucky)? Not only that the people that Cap fights are generally more dangerous why would we think they they're on the same level?
So this is the question yoiu gotta ask yourself Cap's enemies are more dangerous than Batman's but he's on a tier below Batman why is this the case? That doesn't make any sense.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Feb 5th, 2019 at 08:23 PM
And I still think you're probably leaving something out, weren't Deadshot and Deathsroke fighting each other for several days before Batman turned up? That's the only logical raeson why Batman was able to beat both of them at the same time when Deathstoke has been Batman more times and in a couples of cases easily as well.
I dunno but I really don't see the point in personal insults. Why? Should Cap be in LM yes or no? Simple. Just debate the thing.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Feb 5th, 2019 at 09:23 PM
Of course, hence the shifty smilie. But hey, you're absolutely sure you want to discuss the context? Because it only makes it more impressive for Bats...
Batman was fatigued, too... as he was actively trying to stop them and save as many civilians as he could:
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And let's not forget how he was on the beginning of his superhero career... while Deathstroke and Deadshot were already known as the best mercs on the globe:
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i was for cap to lm as well, but see the reasons for keeping him in hs. slade has more offensive firepower and a healing factor that is pretty good. i think taskmaster is a pretty fair gauge. tm is basically cap but i don't see placing him in lm either. so while i think cap deserves lm based on his accomplishments, i can see why in a forum setting the others say hs. either way, it doesn't matter. it doesn't mean he can't beat a bunch of people in the lm tier. these are general guidelines so i'm fine with it. /shrug
i brought up gotham and gotham girl, or did they not have enough appearances?
rogoal zarr? hh or trans?
should we tackle some of the watchmen?
guardians as individuals? been a long standing issue of whether each of the smurfs is trans or skyfather. i fall on the high trans side, generally. should we include them?
i'd again suggest ironheart for hm. she has some pretty good feats and ready access to stark level AI's. her armor has easily withstood missile fire, she's battles hordes of doombots, collections of older stark armors including the hulkbuster armor, easily beaten mm's like rhino.... she's lower end hm maybe, but def fits there i think. and she's not a terrible character--or not completely terrible.
magik needs to be in there. lh?
vandal savage? mm???
groot? hm?
cap cold? mm??? hm?
prometheus? hm? mm??
mr freeze? mm?
parasite? lh??
atrocitus? mh?
ultraman? mh?
mirror master? hm? lh?
owlman? lm?
hush? hs?
king shark? mm?
blackmask? ms?
giganta? hm?
loads of classic villains left off the initial list....
Does Slade have more offensive firepower than Cap, does he really? I've seen Cap slice the top of a Tank. Gotta admit his HF is better than Caps but I would argue that Cap is more skilled.
I don't see how he can beat a bunch of people in LM and his accomplishments say he should be in lm then suddenly it makes sense for him to be in hs. Accomplishments are everything without them you wouldn't even have anything to to use the guidelines for. Not to mention that he's fought people with gadgets before or done well in a depowered state not sure if Batman gets the win here when he could reasonable argue there is a great enough stat and skill advantage.
As I've stated before it make no sense when Cap's rogues gallery are more dangerous than Batman's in general to put him in a tier below.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Feb 5th, 2019 at 11:21 PM
The ranking is used for and based on full-capacity, no PIS forum rules/tourneys, otherwise Hulk [and many others] would be much higher than he is now. Cap is, in essence, just like Hulk, very good at his thing, but far too limited to compete, in a forum/tourney, with the ridiculous amount of versatility the rest bring to the table. Even with some of the versatility some in the high-street tier would bring, too.
Moving on from him, some quick thoughts on what you posted, and I'll give my opinion on the rest tomorrow:
rogoal zarr? hh or trans? - I'd say trans, but we need to know more about him. We don't even know what he can do, what species he is, etc. He might be multiple species spliced into one being [that's the current theory, anyway]. I'd wait
I wouldn't include Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan is > Mxy, and the rest are too featless [except Ozy who has, like...2 feats]
I feel like Guardians [or at least, the ones who matter and we'd use them in threads i.e. Ganthet] are skyfathers, so they shouldn't be on the list.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Last edited by Philosophía on Feb 5th, 2019 at 11:54 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
Agreed. The panel is made up of some pretty unbiased people. I also can’t get invested enough to feel ‘robbed’??
And it’s not you being robbed at all. Lol. It’s the general opinion on the CHARACTER. And like I said it makes no difference whatsoever to a vs match so..... who cares?
The issue has been broached and dealt with and should be considered final at this point. Anyone wanna add to my list?
Dammit, now I don't get to add my Cap opinion. Anyway...
-Gotham and Gotham Girl can't be quantified effectively imo.
-Parasite depends too much on who he's fighting for me. He's smacked around legit heralds.
-Magik - High-Meta.
-Atrocitus - High-Herald.
Anyway I expected a debate that's not what happened. People stated that they were right without any real debate and then it degenerated into insults again. I see their point of view to be honest and conceded early on that they could be right but at least discuss the point over.
Er leo not sure why it's final, sure you don't want other posters to give their opnion?
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
I honestly do appreciate the time you've taken to make a case for Cap here, but it looks like the consensus at the moment is to keep him at HS. So lets put that particular topic to rest for the time being and move onto the next set of proposals...
My opinion on a few of them...
Gotham/Gotham Girl- We don't know enough about their standard levels to effectively place them, imo.
Rogol Zarr- We have Superman at trans now, so it seems odd to not have Rogol there as well.
Watchmen- It'd be hard to categorize them with any sort of accuracy right now other than "street-level"(obviously not counting Manhattan.) We might want to revisit this discussion after Doomsday Clock has wrapped up, though, because I have a feeling Ozy is going to do something big.
Guardians- My initial thought was trans, but I'd be open to them being higher(ie. off the list entirely.)
Vandal Savage- MM
Mr. Freeze- MM
Atrocitus- I'd probably be inclined to put him alongside the other higher-end Lanterns, so HH.
Ultraman- HH
*I'm also going to add Ironheart to HM based on your recommendation.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 6th, 2019 at 01:47 AM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
My concern with belabouring the issue is that it will derail things. Closing the issue was just my opinion. Pr or Galan have the final say I suppose. I do think the thread is open to others dropping in. Galan has said as much as well. I just don’t want the thread bogged down is all.
KMC Community Forums
Feb 5th, 2019 07:05 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion theres more to it than you're showing.
