BUT THERE ARE NO SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA!!!!!! ARE THERE? (according to you people).
THANK YOU!
Why do you insist on agreeing with the guy when he's saying stuff like......which he said in referrence to the song "Angels" that I think is ACTUALLY a great song (because I, ME...I think in those terms).
He DOES NOT understand his own argument.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on May 10th, 2007 at 06:31 PM
2D, the opposite is actually happening, he's not arguing with those people.
He's arguing with people who agree with his opinion on her and others like her, but he's trying to say people are wrong for saying "She makes good music.". They're not wrong, they just have less than favourable opinions.
It's not a fact or truth that they are incorrect.
I'm saying exactly what Bardock said I'm saying.
Technical skill can be proven, but that's not what's being discussed. We're discussing the end product and only the end product, that's all that's ever been discussed, and it will always be subjective. There is no objectively good or bad music, it's all opinion.
You are making a false connection between technically good methods and the music made by those methods. One being good does not mean the other is.
YOU'VE SAID THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOOD OR BAD MUSIC...therefore...NO CRITERIA FOR GOOD AND BAD MUSIC...BECAUSE THERE'S NOOOOO SUUUUCH THIIIING!!!!!!!
THAT'S what YOU said...that's not what he said. THIS is what he said...
Come on Bardock...I know you can do it...
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on May 10th, 2007 at 06:40 PM
There's subjective criteria for judging what music is good and bad to US, and it's subjective because it comes from us alone and applies only to our opinion of that music.
We each have our own standards regarding how we determine what we think is good or bad. There is no objective standard to judge or confirm what is good and bad for everyone, why? Because there's no objectively good or bad music, you idiot.
They both mean the same thing.
We are both saying that all anybody can do is say "I like this music better than that." or "This is bad, that is good.". You can never PROVE either, because there is no objective truth to good or bad music.
Really, the only thing objective about music is when you look at the notation those certain notes, when played, will produce certain frequencies. This is objective because it can be physically measured.
Unless you can prove that music is, objectively speaking, something other than sound energy then you certainly cannot begin to prove that music has inherent properties.
Symbols which represent certain sonic frequencies. Frequencies which can be measured and reproduced.
Yeah, it doesn't really interact with what I was saying. Perhaps because I wasn't clear enough. Music is an arrangement of particular sonic frequencies. This is what notation represents. There are tools to measure this frequency. There aren't tools to measure the "goodness" of music. It's all judged by presuppositions the listener makes in regards to which arrangement of these frequencies is most appealing.
Interesting...but I'm not clear on a couple things.
What tools do you speak of that measure this frequency?
And why don't people find emotion expressed through music appealing, and just the frequencies?
...as an aside, music can exist before it's ever noted down or played out. It's created in someone's mind. The melody, sounds, and even harmony and chord progression can be there. The music exists...just like a joke might exist before the peron has ever ever told it or written it down. And even at that state, I say that music can possibly be crap.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on May 10th, 2007 at 07:34 PM
My point is that music itself is illusory. Music as it exists only exists because enough people agree that there are these certain things which distinguish music from noise or sound in general. There is nothing inherent in sound energy which either makes it musical or non-musical.
True. Music is simply an expression using sound. This is considered music if someone has claimed that is what they're doing...expressing themselves using sound...(or if people have percieved that's what someone is doing).
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May 10th, 2007 06:24 PM
