Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
i am not going back and citing all of the petty arguements ive seen you troll in sence i showed up. theres too many, and they're too long, and it would end up with me getting banned. because more than once, its been that you were argueing and trolling with people just as hard as they, and they get banned instead of you. seriously. i dont get it. everything jacope did, you did. you just used prettier words with the same meaning.
but the key part of the discriptions youre missing. (or taking pride in?) is this.
"with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response"
so.. irritating them. correcting them. talking down to them. blah blah blah. you cant deny you dont enjoy being in arguements. i just dont think you see it as a bad thing, while other people hate it. but its just not worth going into. you enjoy it, it makes you feel good "triumphing" over others in "verbal disagreements". so i fail to see any reasonable point other than that you're looking for another one and using this "topic" as a means. so.. yeah..
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
It's true. I'm provoking other users into a desired emotional response. Generally it's self-insight, sometimes therapeutic outbursts. I'm a healer. People are so ridiculously oversensitive here, that something has to be done. It's because of oversensitivity that humanity is getting flushed.
I'm a proud anti-feminist for one. I can't stand that gibberish about the genders deserving equal treatment forth and back. We are in many ways inferior men, face the facts, sisters.
All of my radical philosophies aside, I've never done anything ban-worthy or even warning-worthy (Aside from arguing a moderator at one point). I stick to the rules. I don't swear, I don't namecall, I don't disrespect opinions and I only ever belittle as retaliation and then barely.
I love being in arguments, because I'm a passionate soul. Talking about something close to my hear drives me, be it literature, philosophy, psychology or societal topics. Is that any less true for you? You don't like discussing things that you enjoy?
I find very little pleasure in triumphing. I find great pleasure in discussing, well ... anything. Give me a moral, ethical, political or otherwise opinion to speak for, and I'll debate it with you regardless of my personal standpoint. It's just how I work.
That's not the problem here, though. It never has been. The problem here, something you must've missed, is that people can't be civil. Every time I discuss something with someone, THEY cast the first stone. ALWAYS. They swear at me, ridicule, belittle, call names or whatever. Always they first.
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
and you dont see that the choice of words you use incites irritation from them to get fed up and start swearing at you? because it honestly rather obviously looks like you do it perposely to get them inflamed. hence why they call troll on you. what you see as discussion, others see as personal attacks on them from you... just because it makes sense to you, doesnt mean other people are going to see it the same way. didnt that psychology class teach you that?
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
Every word I use, I use for a reason. One of the damages of having studied psychology. Writing's not just writing anymore, same as with many other fields. I don't view movies the same, I don't have the same kind of friends, I hear songs differently. I know exactly what I write, how I write and how it can be interpreted.
No matter how I write, it's not because of me that people swear. It's a bad temper, an insecurity or something else. Whatever the reason they swear, there's something in my post that arouse them to become passionate. Swearing, insulting and breaking the rules is their choice, not something I've done.
No individual is ever forced to discuss with me. It is their choice to stay on the topic, stay in the discussion with me. This is the internet. It doesn't take many finger taps to write "I won't have this discussion with you". People don't write that, though, because they want to discuss it with me. When things go south, they blame their choice of discussing it with me on me.
I am not responsible for their actions. I know you're smart enough to realize this as well.
What they see as personal attacks on them by me, is a hasty conclusion made by them. Not once have I seen someone ask me to elaborate something possibly interpreted as an insult. Every time, they instead curse and spit. They cease to act civil, the few of them that initially were.
I'm not an idiot. Don't make me out as one.
__________________
Last edited by Super Marie 64 on Mar 30th, 2011 at 07:06 PM
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
didnt mean to imply youre stupid, just that you dont see what others see. so obviously you realise the things you say can be and more than likely will be taken badly. and your views are its the other persons fault for being offended? interesting take on things..
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
I don't really see the point in explaining things cause it seems you've excepted being a troll and are very proud of it but since you asked and I find your intelligence attractive (probably cause I'm not so smart ) so I'll answer your question. You start arguements that could be avioded, and some of those topics don't matter at all but it takes up four pages and a mod to stop it. And when a mod comes to stop it, you play the victim. It is true what you said, it is their choice to argue with you but it's your choice to instigate it. The only problem I had with you is when you brought an arguement into an ooc and you were not in noway involved in the rp. Well thats my opinion on the matter and it probably doesn't matter to you but you did ask for it lol.
I never said I blame them for their interpretations. I blame them for their reactions. I can't be blamed for the things they say to me, and the things they say to get into trouble.
I say the things I say, because I arouse a topic that they obviously either need to want to discuss. Everyone is walking on their toes around certain topics, not saying what need to be said sometimes. Avoiding a problem has never been the solution.
If I get people to discuss openly about various topics, they and I might learn from it. The reason I am as explicit as I sometimes am, is because depending on their reaction, it becomes clear if they are interested in learning or if they are more interested in fighting. The things I write can be interpreted as agitating, true, but they can also be interpreted as contributional. It's sad how rarely it's the latter. It's like people all over want to take things in a negative way.
First of all: This is heartwarming. I thank you a great deal for this comment I didn't quite expect it from you, but I'll take it to heart. On the same note, I don't think you're "not so smart". I admire you a great deal, and you have the mind that matter, along with parts that I lack. I wish to Heaven I could be more like you
Now to the rest of the post. Please endure, because I'm going to try put myself out there. Take my hand and follow into the workings of my mind:
I don't consider myself a troll. My reply to those definitions was mostly jesting, because it wasn't really giving me the answer I wanted. In fact, it was avoiding answering my plea. I weren't after some official trolling definition. I can look those up myself. The thing is, that trolling is subjective. In order to understand what's so terrible about me, I need to understand your (You guys) idea of a troll.
Of course I am proud of the things that he categorized me as. It's an outright praise. He basically portrayed me as invincible, and it doesn't take someone of trollish nature to appreciate that. Who doesn't like being told you're invincible, a figure to behold in awe and intrigue for the speciment you are? It's only modesty and fear of judgemental looks and comments that hold most back from embracing a praise when it comes their way.
Don't be afraid to love yourself. Be proud of who, and what you are.
My ego aside, any topic can be avoided. I like discussing things, because I believe it's through social interaction that we grow as human beings. I've learnt a great deal from discussing with people, both as a social creature and about the world. You never know what will come of a discussion, which is why I engage in them in the first place. It's a beautiful thing, to see the soul of a fellow forum member out there in the writing. People share morals, interests, knowledge and passion when they discuss, sometimes without realizing it. When you discuss something with someone, a whole world can unravel before you.
It's beautiful. That's why I engage in conversations I don't have to. Not to agitate, not to troll.
I have very rarely started an argument in an OOC thread that I've had no place in. The few times it's been done, has been when someone has been treated injustly, or when someone blurt out something so foolish it has to be dealt with.
"Evil triumph when good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke.
I did ask for your opinion. I appreciate it a great deal, and I welcome any additional comments you might have. I know it's hard to believe, but when I ask something, I mean it. I asked you guys to tell me what bothers you about me, and I'm hoping this opportunity doesn't go to waste because most are too afraid to say anything.
I have lived a more hardening life than most, you can't offend me even if you tried.
This is me, genuinely branching out, for you to speak your mind(s).
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
reactions are based on interpretations. its just my opinion that you seem to involve yourself in conversations just to correct someone or incite some issue. which is why i think troll. and the words you use while creating (a rather well structured and obviously carefully worded) replies makes you hard to counter. (hence the lvl 98 boss battle troll, because its a ***** to deal with trolls who are actually pulling knowlege behind them)
never implied invincibility... just not worth trying to beat. a quick wit will win any arguement, no matter what the issue. and you have enough wit to never lose, even if you're wrong on the subject. so its not worth trying.. i believe one of my first posts here was me warning jacope to not start an arguement with you, because i saw it then, and i see it now.
you see things how you see them, and they're correct to you. even if no-one else thinks so. and youre learned enough to be able to present your view in ways thats hard to argue, no matter whats going on.
a good example for people doing this would be when i won an arguement against a "friend" of mine by saying the sky was green, instead of blue. he called shenanigans. i presented the thought that the way we see colors cant be explained. i have no idea if the color blue looks like the color blue to you. it could be orange, or red, or black in your perspective. the thing is, we grow up being told that the color youre looking at is blue, so it must be blue. i suggested that i saw the sky as a green color. and he couldnt come up with anything to counter that at all.
so.. yeah.. i used to troll and counter-troll for fun on message boards. i know a trolling when i see it. and intentional or not.. for whatever meaning you have behind it, thats whats happening in alot of your arguements. at least in my eyes. (which is still just my opinion)
and now im ranting... fsck. anyways. i see your point. and im fairy certain you see mine. different personalities react different ways. some dont mix well. i think ima leave it at that. good luck with everyone else.. not sure how the end of this will go, but im hoping mods dont have to get involved. (even though they wont even read any of this)
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Of course I involve myself to correct someone. Is there any better reason to engage in a rewarding discussion? You mean that you don't? If you see someone speak falsely, you don't do anything about it? I can't do that. Not for his sake, my sake, or those he's talking to. It's true that at times, my actions has had inciting intentions, but only to the degree where this individual will come to discuss it with me.
Oh, but you did imply invincibility. Have you heard that song you linked, lately? I absolutely adore it. Might become my personal anthem because it's outright beautiful. I don't consider myself a troll still, but I recognize myself in the lyric. That along with you giving my approach credit, and speaking of me packing knowledge, I just can't find a more propriate definition than a sense of invincibility. Now, I'm not saying I am invincible, but I did get that feeling from your post. Arrogant? Perhaps. See no reason to lie about my reactions to it, though, so I don't mind being arrogant.
Intentional or not? You consider it possible to be a troll unintentionally? I think that violate the whole concept of trolling, because to my understanding, it's a conscious activity.
The things that happen in arguments I get into, is that people lose their temper. If you read back, and have a careful look on all the arguments I've been in, you will see that very little I've written can't be interpreted as positive or contributional as well. Granted, there were times during JacopeX discussions where I belittled or ridiculed him, but you can't hold that against me. If you have any objectivity available, you'll see that he's ten times the agitator I am when he write. He insult, call names, bash, flame, bait and belittle frequently. There's not a single longer post in an argument where he hasn't belittled his counter-party at least a few times, and ridiculed their opinions.
I have NEVER ridiculed an opinion. I firmly believe that everyone is entitled theirs, and I stand by this. I always have. You can see that as well, if you read back. I respect people and their opinions, no matter what you believe.
To conclude, yes, I see your point. I don't consider what I've done as trolling, though. Otherwise, trolling is not as negative a term as I've been lead to believe. I know that I could adapt according to the unique individual and not incite an argument, but truth be told, that's not expected of anyone. Why shouldn't I be allowed to be me when everyone else is?
And if it remains with this civil a tone, a moderator won't be necessary. The only times moderators has stepped in, is when my "opposition" has begun swearing, belittle, insult and do personal attacks. It has never been because of me, that moderators has had to say stop.
Gender: Female Location: The Land Beyond what Time can Touch
Okay... Like Matthias said there is little point in arguing with you. So let me go back and just mention a few things because over this argument and another, I'm tired of taking it. But I will TRY not to break forum rules, if the hand of someone not nearly as intelligent as you claim to be is good enough not to be like everyone else you categorize.
First argument I remember having with you, though there may have been a smaller one before, was on my gender. You called me a he. If I recall, I didn't immediately strike back but I was a little weird about it. I told you that you could see my gender by going to my page or by checking under my name, you corrected on saying that you couldn't see it from there. Well if you don't want to check my page then, there are common ways of rectifying that. With a bit of more effort you could use "they" or "them", referring to the person in question I.E. Me. But you decided that you would still call me a guy and then went into an argument with how you adore guys and believe that they are better-- insulting enough to me but whatever. Point is that in the end you never acknowledged me as a girl and while I'd be fine with that in most cases you continued calling me a "he". If I were to guess.. it's because you knew it agitated me by then so you continued it simply to see me fuss.
Second thing I can think of, though you have heard this MANY times before. I never see you on any Roleplays, yet you are in the Unhosted Roleplay section. I know other people like that but they talk about them or they tell about RP's on other sites. You however don't do anything regarding RP's yet you are in the RP section. You simply sit there to instigate people and "correct" them. You even signed up for some RP's when the idea was posted but when it was started, you never joined. Possibly a cover up to hide the fact that you never intended to join them but want a reason to hide behind if someone should bring it up. I'm not going to make any direct accusations, but it is a possibility.
Third thing I can think of. You and Jacope have a rivalry going on, which is okay. I have rivalries with people on here too. But you wouldn't be considerate to the people of the site and take it to private messaging so that nobody gets involved into this argument which would clearly be heated. Again, my guess is that you get your excitement for the day, not just by winning an argument with whatever words you choose to use, but by having an audience to see it so you can feel like you are better then others. You would be the kid in a high school that walks into the bathroom and grabs a kid by the neck then pulls them out into the hallway at passing period just so you could show off your dominance for all to see. Jacope is gone now and it wasn't even because of you. I find that to be the funniest part of it, that as much as you two argued you weren't the one to get him banned. I LOL at this.
~Continuation of the last part of it, Jacope came in with a sock account. He bashed all the people who he felt have been included in negative talking against him. He was wrong to do that. It broke every rule in the book. But you and all your knowledge knew that the second a moderator saw it they would re-ban him and delete his posts so know one ever knew. Yet you still posted back, whether because you were insulted or just wanted to get in a quick argument I don't know. You always feel the need to take justice into your own hands-- unfortunately, it never ends up better, you just increase the flames.
Ushgarak was the one who ended the arguments. Jacope was banned and Ush began deleting most of the posts and all of his posts. He then gave a warning to stop. But you didn't stop, you kept at it. You were persistently looking for that high that you get from arguments that you were arguing and disobeying a moderator, you are lucky because anyone else said that and they'd be banned. You are just so careful, watching you're every word to make sure that you don't get in trouble. You can do whatever you want just because you are nice and cozy in KMC and you talk so that nobody can touch you. Metaphorically, you paint your insults with happy faces so that while they are insulting, nobody can call you on it. Completely different tone right there O.o bleh..
This reminds me so much of you it's not even funny. You talk all the time about how you are just contributing to the forum, you are just helping others. You're help is shoving words down someone else's throat and telling them "Don't say what you're saying, what I say is so much better!" But you know what.. fact is that everyone is right on the subject. You'll get away with doing whatever you want because nobody is going to stop you. You'll come and go and insult people on whatever you want and they can choose to ignore you or not, but you'll do it anyways. You wanted to know why people thought you were a troll and I just gave you my reason why I now think you are a troll.
-You poke at people until they get angry.
-You're constantly off topic at least in this forum, and you never actually seek to be part of the community but rather an instigator of its community.
A bunch of the things you say are outright false or misconceptions, one per paragraph pretty much. I find these misconceptions offensive and feel sad that you haven't given the issues you have with me enough consideration, but if I reply, you'll be offended. So I'll try to counter my predicament by being brief and comprehensive. A lot of the things I want to respond to, won't be responded to. If you feel you can take a further elaboration though, I'd love to explain myself on every case. Because I feel you've misunderstood a great deal. Not about my intentions, because I know I can't convince you about those. About the situations:
1. Not an issue, but can you rephrase the last part of your first paragraph. I didn't get it at all, and I'd appreciate it.
2. You're remembering the first gender drama wrong. I'm using a theme where I don't see the gender of the member in their posts. Gender doesn't matter to me, so I have no habit of checking the gender of every poster I interact with. I also never said (then) that I thought men were better, I just said that I like them more.
3. I used to be part of many roleplays in the past. There was a time when I was active in 14 at the same time, here in UHRP. I know it was 14, because I was asked how many back then and I counted. I have since then, little by little, fallen in love with this forum. If I sign up for one in the idea thread, it's because I believe in the idea. If I don't register a character, it's because something in it disappoint me. The reason I stay on this forum, is because I like the members, and because I like roleplaying.
4. That you think I wanted JacopeX banned is hurtful. I mean this. The fact that you laugh at him being banned because of something other than me, as if I'm disappointed I couldn't take the credit, that's even more hurtful. I ceased to like JacopeX a time ago, that's no secret, but many did like him. Why would I want him banned? I'm not THAT selfish.
5. I've confessed to being rightfully warned by Ushgarak. I argued him, because I didn't agree with him. Not because I get a rush out of arguing. I had a different opinion than him, and I felt it necessary to share it. On the same matter, you're wrong. No one would've gotten banned for that. You can ask any moderator on the forum, or even the admin. That's not something they issue a ban over.
6. I appreciate your contribution, and welcome any comments and corrections you might have on this post. You could've been less provokative, though. The way you write, as if you're hoping I reply in the way you so clearly find offensive. All those negative assumptions and active tainting of my persona.
I tried making it as brief as possible and still include the things I felt necessary to point out. I in sincerity hope you endured the read.
__________________
Last edited by Super Marie 64 on Mar 31st, 2011 at 06:49 PM
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
im sort of curious to see how many of the active roleplayers here consiter your actions troll behavior, compared with those who dont. should be interesting to see.
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
no.. i suppose not. oh.. side note. disagreeing with a mod is actually against forum rules. go figure. at least in public threads, anyways. i got a warning for it. O_o
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
It is against the rules, but I can't remember once in my four years that they've banned someone for a mild case of disagreeing. I got a rightful warning for when I did it, and they normally only warn you initially. If you keep it up beyond the warning, or if your behavior towards the moderator is offensive, then you might get banned.
I'll confess though, when I did argue him, I didn't realize it was against the rules. I viewed him as just another member aside from his obligations.
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
yeah.i get annoyed at people who dont do their job. but i guess it doesnt matter much if its volunteer work. and i have a question for you. just what about the successful troll song do you find so flattering? i pretty much just play it to people to make fun of them for getting sucked into arguements with trolls. and most people wouldnt like being a troll. so you're a bit of a confusing person.
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
There are several parts in it that appeal to me a great deal.
"You have probably been told, don't reply to this guy" insinuate that that it's common understanding that there's a sense of futility in interacting with the subject. Since I know I'm not unreasonable, nor argue baselessly, it has to mean I'm doing something right when I debate a matter.
"You respond and that's his cue" is pretty much affirming what I said earlier, about how I like having discussions. I love to debate and argue, and I do get happy when I realize someone is willing to discuss with me.
"While he strokes his manly stubble" sounds beautiful. I want a manly stubble. Given the circumstances, imagining will have to do, but that works for me.
"You should probably just fold, when the only winning move is not to play" this is from where I got the notion of invincibility. I approve of this line a great deal. It's fun to hear, and it just speaks to me.
Gender: Male Location: holding the very reins of the world
interesting.. you are quite the strange person. i have to say though, other than your intelligence, you're not going to get many (if any) positive feedback from this whole thing. your personality just conflicts with others, it seems. i suppose if we ever get into anything, i'll have to remember not to take anything personally.
elena sings songs that are made are easter eggs in the call of duty zombies modes. they're all pretty damn good. and high school of the dead is a rather new anime that i freakin love.
__________________ Lay a fire between your hands and another within your heart. For one shall be called faith, and the other victory. and neither shall ever be put out.
Last edited by Matthias Fenris on Mar 31st, 2011 at 09:10 PM
KMC Community Forums
Mar 30th, 2011 06:25 PM
) so I'll answer your question. You start arguements that could be avioded, and some of those topics don't matter at all but it takes up four pages and a mod to stop it. And when a mod comes to stop it, you play the victim. It is true what you said, it is their choice to argue with you but it's your choice to instigate it. The only problem I had with you is when you brought an arguement into an ooc and you were not in noway involved in the rp. Well thats my opinion on the matter and it probably doesn't matter to you but you did ask for it lol.
I didn't quite expect it from you, but I'll take it to heart. On the same note, I don't think you're "not so smart". I admire you a great deal, and you have the mind that matter, along with parts that I lack. I wish to Heaven I could be more like you 
