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In Shadows of the Empire, he holds his own against all of Xizor's guards rather nciely

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Originally posted by Janus Marius
Ah, my favorite kind of thread. One with few if any unreasonable characters.

AnakinNihilus made an excellent post, btw. Haven't seen you around before, but kudos for the insight into this thread.

Darthsith:



Correction: Luke had absolutely no training before the events of A New Hope. Asajj had already received some Jedi training from her master before she ever left her homeworld and was included in some heavy battles there. When Dooku arrives on her homeworld, she owns just about everyone who comes before her save the count, and shortly after that she meets up with Obi-wan and for all intents and purposes, ties with him. She then defeats three Jedi not even halfway into the first year of the war. At 12 months, she owns Kit Fisto and Obi-Wan. So really, they're not even comparable.



He Force chokes one after the other, but if that's the epitome of uberism than Qui-Gon Jinn is a ****ing Force God. He can turn off droids by messing with their parts internally and can change the rotating of a die without alerting onlookers.

And really, if you want to compare Force powers between Ventress and Luke, Ventress manipulates a rancor using the Force; Luke had to chuck a rock to hit a button and kill it.



We can't say for sure he did either, so the point is moot. Assertion without proof is not an argument.



Bested? No, I disagree. Vader took a dive in that fight. In the previous fight, when Vader wasn't playing around, Luke was all over the place like a *****. If you seriously think that a self-trained Jedi farmboy can suddenly "best" an elder version of Anakin Skywalker, you are deluded.

And really, you can't tell me that this kind of fighting is "besting" anything other than common sense:

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Look at that last swing. Luke ****ing missed Vader. Granted, it's a bit dark in there, but he's not exactly a two-foot Kate Moss or anything. If Luke in a rage has to practically be in Vader's lap to hit him, I really don't see him outduelling Asajj.



This is a load of shit. Bane was trained by the Brotherhood before he even touched his first lightsaber, and even then he lost a fight. It was Bane's incredible and instinctive use of the Force and the Dark Side which put him head and shoulders above others; his saber ability followed in that wake.



This is simply wrong. Check your sources.



The Emperor feared Luke's power, not the boy himself. This is shown very very clearly in RotJ when he sits calmly while young Skywalker is present and even lets him draw his weapon. Sidious is nowhere near threatened by Luke, especially when he's busy frying him on the floor. I'm not really sure where everyone is perpetuating this myth from, but it's silly.

And "most impressive" is better than 'impressive', but it's hardly a proclamation of uberness. When you dodge a falling gear in Soul Calibur III, the villain is impressed; doesn't mean I can kick his ass, does it?



He's slightly more controlled and has practiced the Force more. I actually like RotJ's more placid Luke approach, and I think he turned out to be a Jedi in Obi-Wan's likeness for his personal philosophy. However, as far as how much stronger he became in duelling, this remains to be substantiated. Certainly in combat, he's not on par with earlier Jedi. Even padawan Obi-Wan and Anakin could survive full out blaster fights without getting singed; not the case for Luke. Also, even underaged padawans technically have more saber training and unarmed combat training than Luke and there's something to be said for real training. I don't care how much potential you have, if you squander it (*cough cough Anakin cough*) or just lose your head, you lose, period.

Luke's fight with Vader was symbolic as well as preplanned by Vader and Sidious. Luke may seemed to have been winning the battle, but he was losing the war against the Dark Side by using it to defeat his father.



Again, you need to doublecheck your sources or read more EU; Ventress after mere months into the war was able to tie with AotC-level Obi-Wan. If you think RotJ Luke can defeat AotC Obi-Wan, I seriously will just stop addressing you on the forums, because that's ridiculous.



* Before the war, she received Jedi training and defeated all threats to her power. He effectively ruled her homeworld with her own ability, and when all came to pay homage to Count Dooku, she floored them all.

* Ten weeks into the Clone Wars, she meets up with Obi-wan Kenobi and ties him. She also kills a Jedi Master and literally "unhands" the master's apprentice.

* She defeats three Jedi by herself three months into the war.

* Shortly after this, she duels Anakin and is winning until he calls on the Dark Side en masse and overpowers her.

This is all within a 4-5 month period of war experience. Luke's "war experience" is laughable; limited mostly to flying starfighters. His actual combat experience against other Force users pales in comparison with Ventress or anyone with even modest Jedi training in her era. And considering Ventress goes on to butcher more Jedi masters, it really undermines your point. She's just better at this stage in the game.



Both times Vader fought Luke he never had the intent to actually murder him. Even at times when he had the boy at his mercy, he let the opening pass and continued to taunt the boy until he could turn him. You think that because Luke got a lucky strike on Vader's shoulder that he's suddenly better? What, and because Vader was trying so damn hard to kill him, right? You have to be kidding me. Vader was perfectly capable of murdering Jedi far more dangerous than Luke with far less effort. Luke was in more danger in the wampa cave.

Bottom line? Ventress outduels Luke and wears his skin as a pelt.

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Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
This is an almost 10 year old thread that just got bumped because someone agrees with a really old post...