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Respect the Silver Surfer!
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Naija boy
This is accurate, he didnt use the illuminatrix to do it, he used his power cosmic and flat out says it. The code is simply the comic book based scientific explanation of the method through which the reality restructuring /matter manipulation is initiated. Surfer used his power cosmic to generate the same effect but in a destructive capacity across thousands of planets spanning the universe via an alternative and much stronger code.

Id say it can be classified as matter manip since it involves deconstructing/rewriting molecules in order to undo the transformation of the illuminatrix though reality rewriting is probably a better description since the illuminatrix was able to replace even the histories of planets and peoples it was used on.


I think it's more like "reality-rewrite". I remember an episode of Star Trek where Q was turned human and he mentioned that the only way to save the dying planet was to "change the universal gravitational constant". I see it like more-or-less similar in manner (tho not in magnitude).

Old Post Apr 19th, 2016 05:29 PM
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Naija boy
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^ Yeah I can agree with that. Its sometimes a little blurry where the line between matter manip and reality manip/rewriting is but as an overall classification i think the feat falls into the latter camp.

I think reality manip feats can sometimes encompass a matter manipulation component when taken to their logical conclusions.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2016 05:36 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I don't know. From the wording, it sounds like to me that he used the method (of using a code) the illuminatrix used rather than used the illuminatrix itself. And he beat it at its own game (via sending a stronger code).

Is there a part of the comic that One Punch excluded where Surfer stated that he somehow used the illuminatrix?

Edit. Although I will agree that it doesn't look anything like matter manip. More like some sort of reality-rewriting via plot device nonsense.

Also: anyone here play Marvel Heroes 2016 MMOARPG? Pretty fun game. big grin


He flat out says that he is using his power Cosmic to send a code through the illumanatrix to all the worlds.

How and why would he use Illumanatrix if he can just use his power Cosmic to rewrite reality (which he can't do).

First time I see matter manipulation erasing memories. Of the matter manipulator.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2016 06:14 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Naija boy
This is accurate, he didnt use the illuminatrix to do it, he used his power cosmic and flat out says it. The code is simply the comic book based scientific explanation of the method through which the reality restructuring /matter manipulation is initiated. Surfer used his power cosmic to generate the same effect but in a destructive capacity across thousands of planets spanning the universe via an alternative and much stronger code.

Id say it can be classified as matter manip since it involves deconstructing/rewriting molecules in order to undo the transformation of the illuminatrix though reality rewriting is probably a better description since the illuminatrix was able to replace even the histories of planets and peoples it was used on.


What a bunch of nonsense. Surfer says he had been shown how the machine works and it has restructured the planets via a code.

After that, he sends a destruct code which eliminated the previous code. Via the machine which he is touching.

How and why is this reality rewriting? Surfer loses his own memory FFS.

And this is my last post here


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Last edited by abhilegend on Apr 19th, 2016 at 06:21 PM

Old Post Apr 19th, 2016 06:19 PM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
He flat out says that he is using his power Cosmic to send a code through the illumanatrix to all the worlds.

How and why would he use Illumanatrix if he can just use his power Cosmic to rewrite reality (which he can't do).

First time I see matter manipulation erasing memories. Of the matter manipulator.



What part of what he said mentioned that? Pls quote it cuz I can't see where it is.

Old Post Apr 19th, 2016 06:38 PM
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One-Punch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by One-Punch
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Lol, abhi in a Surfer respect thread. I wonder why he's here?

No where does it say Surfer is using the Illuminatrix to send out the destruct code.

In fact, the first panel shows Surfer destroying the Illuminatrix and in the third panel he states "Now with my Power Cosmic I am sending out a far stronger signal. A destruct code."

Surfer literally says he's using his Power Cosmic to send out the signal, not the Illuminatrix.

I agree that matter manipulation might not be the best term, it seems more akin to reality warping.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2016 06:53 PM
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abhilegend
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laughing out loud

Surfer is a reality Warner now?


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 03:01 AM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Surfer is a reality Warner now?


I read somewhere that they were going the "Dr. Who" type storytelling for the new Surfer comics. That may include the strange plot-devicey nature storytelling of it as well.

Dialogue is quite clear, tho. He beat the Illuminatrix at its own game. Unless we're missing some pages that state otherwise.

It's a one-of plot-devicey uber "feat". Kinda like how ppl like to tout supersinging, I guess. /shrug

Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 05:52 AM
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Mindship
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Regardless of how we label the feat, it clearly involved a very profound and skillful deployment of power cosmic, altering matter/reality on both an intimate level and vast scale.

BTW, the artist's style is so nostalgically Kirbyesque. His Ben Grimm is superb.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 10:57 AM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
Regardless of how we label the feat, it clearly involved a very profound and skillful deployment of power cosmic, altering matter/reality on both an intimate level and vast scale.

BTW, the artist's style is so nostalgically Kirbyesque. His Ben Grimm is superb.


Agree. Love the art style and the comic is easy to read and follow so it's something I actually plan on reading as soon as my addiction to a new game is all done. :P

You should try Marvel Heroes 2016, game is free to play and Surfer is a badass in it.

Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 11:34 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I read somewhere that they were going the "Dr. Who" type storytelling for the new Surfer comics. That may include the strange plot-devicey nature storytelling of it as well.

Dialogue is quite clear, tho. He beat the Illuminatrix at its own game. Unless we're missing some pages that state otherwise.

It's a one-of plot-devicey uber "feat". Kinda like how ppl like to tout supersinging, I guess. /shrug

That doesn't means Surfer is suddenly a reality Warper.

Yeah, he beats the illuminatrix. Because he had been shown how to operate it and destroyed it using a destruction code by itself.

The comic made itself clear how Surfer does it. To label it as "maybe reality warping" is just nonsense.

Superman didn't use a machine when he destroyed Darkseid's essence. A more apt comparison is Superman restoring entire multiverse by Miracle Machine.

That's actually proper reality warping.


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Last edited by abhilegend on Apr 20th, 2016 at 05:31 PM

Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 05:28 PM
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quanchi112
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Surfer is a reality warped now so he really outshines Superman even more hence the crying about it from abhi. Great stuff.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 05:57 PM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't means Surfer is suddenly a reality Warper.

Yeah, he beats the illuminatrix. Because he had been shown how to operate it and destroyed it using a destruction code by itself.

The comic made itself clear how Surfer does it. To label it as "maybe reality warping" is just nonsense.

Superman didn't use a machine when he destroyed Darkseid's essence. A more apt comparison is Superman restoring entire multiverse by Miracle Machine.

That's actually proper reality warping.


I didn't say it was reality warping, more like reality-rewriting. Changing one part of it to affect the whole (see my analogy).

Except that the dialogue competely disagrees with you and I quote:

"Every planet the Illuminatrix restructured it did so with a code, the complex culture of my people"

"Now with the power cosmic, I am sending out a far stronger code."

He didn't say he was sending the code thru the Illuminatrix, he never mentions that he is using the illuminatrix at all. He is quite clearly using the PC to do what the Illuminatrix is doing (rewriting reality).

He is able to do so because he understands how the machine works (aka he understands the method of how the machine rewrites reality) and he simply used the PC to duplicate said method only on a much stronger scale (to affect the universe all at once). Heck, the Illuminatrix couldn't affect the Earth at the speed that the Surfer affected the universe, otherwise it would have changed Earth right away, wouldn't it?

Touching it has really nothing to do with him using the machine. There's no clear explanation why on panel, but if I was to hazard a guess, one would think that if one wanted to rewrite code, it would mean first cancelling the code that runs most strongly in the complete opposition of said rewrite and that if such an effort took everything you had, you'd want to be as close as possible to max out your chances. I mean if Superman was touching the hull of a spaceship before he punches it, you don't think someone arguing that Superman used the ship to destroy itself would sound a bit absurd, would you?

And what does it affecting him have anything to do with him using the machine? You act like characters can't affect themselves with their own powers.

Last edited by Nibedicus on Apr 20th, 2016 at 06:30 PM

Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 06:27 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I didn't say it was reality warping, more like reality-rewriting. Changing one part of it to affect the whole (see my analogy).

Except that the dialogue competely disagrees with you and I quote:

"Every planet the Illuminatrix restructured it did so with a code, the complex culture of my people"

"Now with the power cosmic, I am sending out a far stronger code."


Yes, while touching the illumanatrix and using it to send another signal which initiated the destruction of the earlier code.

quote:


He didn't say he was sending the code thru the Illuminatrix, he never mentions that he is using the illuminatrix at all. He is quite clearly using the PC to do what the Illuminatrix is doing (rewriting reality).


Wut? He is touching the illuminatrix while doing it.

All of a sudden, he is a reality Warper now?
quote:


He is able to do so because he understands how the machine works (aka he understands the method of how the machine rewrites reality) and he simply used the PC to duplicate said method only on a much stronger scale (to affect the universe all at once). Heck, the Illuminatrix couldn't affect the Earth at the speed that the Surfer affected the universe, otherwise it would have changed Earth right away, wouldn't it?

Touching it has really nothing to do with him using the machine. There's no clear explanation why on panel, but if I was to hazard a guess, one would think that if one wanted to rewrite code, it would mean first cancelling the code that runs most strongly in the complete opposition of said rewrite and that if such an effort took everything you had, you'd want to be as close as possible to max out your chances. I mean if Superman was touching the hull of a spaceship before he punches it, you don't think someone arguing that Superman used the ship to destroy itself would sound a bit absurd, would you?


What are you trying to do here with all these paragraphs? Surfer obviously says he is sending a far stronger code than before.

Hey, Superman rewrote the entire DC multiverse with Miracle Machine. How is that for "maybe reality warping"?
quote:


And what does it affecting him have anything to do with him using the machine? You act like characters can't affect themselves with their own powers.


Since when does reality Warpers affect themselves?


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 07:12 PM
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Nibedicus
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Your entire argument is predicated on "he is touching it thus he was using it". Even tho nothing ever explicitly mentions him using it at all and he specifically mentions that he was using the Power Cosmic to do it and that his rewrite was far faster than what the machine was capable of doing based on the story. You'll have to forgive me if I disagree as the dialogue and story completely contradicts your theory.

I mean it's right there. In quotes.

Yes, a far stronger code using the Power Cosmic.

Surfer affects himself with his powers all the time. He's sculped his own body and changed its form many times using his PC, is it so far fetched for him to affect his memories? I mean what's so strange about this?

Don't know about the miracle machine Superman "feat", I mean this IS a Surfer respect thread after all.

Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 08:00 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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Abhi in SS' respect thread.

It can't possibly go well laughing out loud

But hey, at least it keeps this forum alive.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2016 11:26 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Your entire argument is predicated on "he is touching it thus he was using it". Even tho nothing ever explicitly mentions him using it at all and he specifically mentions that he was using the Power Cosmic to do it and that his rewrite was far faster than what the machine was capable of doing based on the story. You'll have to forgive me if I disagree as the dialogue and story completely contradicts your theory.

I mean it's right there. In quotes.

Yes, a far stronger code using the Power Cosmic.

Surfer affects himself with his powers all the time. He's sculped his own body and changed its form many times using his PC, is it so far fetched for him to affect his memories? I mean what's so strange about this?

Don't know about the miracle machine Superman "feat", I mean this IS a Surfer respect thread after all.
thumb up

Nice job disproving his cries. This happens to him all the time. He recently claimed Tha is had an arm blown off when the art didn't even show that. He's just a petty superman fanboy.


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 12:37 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Your entire argument is predicated on "he is touching it thus he was using it". Even tho nothing ever explicitly mentions him using it at all and he specifically mentions that he was using the Power Cosmic to do it and that his rewrite was far faster than what the machine was capable of doing based on the story. You'll have to forgive me if I disagree as the dialogue and story completely contradicts your theory.

I mean it's right there. In quotes.

Yes, a far stronger code using the Power Cosmic.

Surfer affects himself with his powers all the time. He's sculped his own body and changed its form many times using his PC, is it so far fetched for him to affect his memories? I mean what's so strange about this?

Don't know about the miracle machine Superman "feat", I mean this IS a Surfer respect thread after all.

Well, have fun with "reality warper" Silver Surfer. If you want, I can create a thread in the main forum and discuss it there.

thumb up


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 03:09 AM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Agree. Love the art style and the comic is easy to read and follow so it's something I actually plan on reading as soon as my addiction to a new game is all done. :P

You should try Marvel Heroes 2016, game is free to play and Surfer is a badass in it.
Just started a new (for me) game myself. When it exceeds my frustration tolerance, I will give MH a roll. Thnx.


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 10:04 AM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, have fun with "reality warper" Silver Surfer. If you want, I can create a thread in the main forum and discuss it there.

thumb up


Not sure what that'll accomplish (unless it's a BZ type thread with judges and everything). We both know you'll never accept this "feat" as how it the dialogue shown. :P

I wil also admit that there might well be clarifications in the future that would make such debates moot as well. Best we wait til next issue as I'm sure they'll clarify it further by then.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 12:53 PM
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