Oooooooooooh, you're really good at this! I guess maybe Snape, he completely toyed with book 6 Harry after all, and book 6 Harry is already above avg. as far as fighting skills go. Moody... I'm guessing he was only a little bit ahead of Kingsley, seeing as Kingsley is the best, and Moody was the best, so he'd probably be around Bellatrix's level.
Wait, what? What's the difference?
But Neville improved faster than anyone except perhaps Hermione, he likely received more advanced stuff from Barty Crouch Jr. as a 4th year student than Luna did as a third year student, plus he had an extra year of DADA from Quirrell. Quirrell's classes may have been a bit of a joke, but I'm sure he taught them some stuff, as the book doesn't satate him to be completely worthless like Lockhart and Umbridge were. And he even went through one year of N.E.W.T. DADA with Snape, and Luna didn't.
Karkaroff has knowledge, yes, seeing as he was once a Death Eater. However, having knowledge doesn't mean that he has skill. About Quirrell being only mediocre, it also says "though this could be a simple coverup so no one suspects his secret." Which seems accurate: After all, Quirrell's stuttering was a cover-up ("Who would suspect p-p-poor, st-stuttering professor Quirrell?"). Karkaroff is older than Snape, but Snape would beat him. Quirrell has performed magic without a wand, something we've only seen exceptional wizards do. He has done magic by snapping his fingers, and was about to perform a deadly curse using only his hands (when Harry touched his face to stop him). He broke into Gringotts and escaped from a high-security vault, which is supposed to be impossible. Also, he nearly had Harry off his broomstick even with Snape muttering his "silly-little counter curse". While Quirrell had a head-start (since he was already jinxking the broom by the time Snape started the counter-curse) and he may have practiced the curse before performing it to make sure nothing went wrong, but it's still impressive that he was able to nearly have Harry off his broom even with Snape trying to stop him. I'd say Quirrell kills Karkaroff, I think he's a lot stronger than people give him credit for, and no, I don't think Voldemort was increasing his powers, either. Voldemort was next to dead, he was pretty worthless on the back of Quirrell's head. Plus, in book 4, he says sometimes he possessed Snakes, but they soon died from being possessed by him, so if anything, Voldemort would have made Quirrell weaker rather than stronger.
Amelia Bones vs. Severus Snape?
Madam Maxime vs. Kingsley?
__________________
Last edited by darthsith19 on Aug 16th, 2007 at 05:31 PM
probably Snape, he is one of the most powerful wizards
Well, since Madame Maxime is part giant some spells would bounce off of her, but I think Kingsley could overcome that since how else would the giants have been defeated before? Of Course Madame Maxime is probably fairly powerful as a witch she is no match for Kingsley in dueling. Kingsley wins.
Well, like you said, Luna was in a pretty poor state during Book 7. If she were in that state in her duel with Neville, she'd probably die pretty quickly. But if she were fully rested, she's do a lot better.
Like you said, Quirrell's classes were probably a joke. Even though he might've taught them some stuff, it most likely would've been teaching them defense against dark creatures, not defensive spells. Snape became Defense Against thee Dark Arts teacher?
I personally think that Voldemort was augumenting Quirrell's power, but you put up a persuasive argument otherwise. Voldemort's possesion of Quirrell must've shorted the latter's life-expectancy, but it can't be told whether or not Quirrell's magical proficiency diminished or not. Also, hand-magic is something not even the most powerful wizards could accomplish. McGonagal states in the seventh book that Snape survived the fall from the tower only because he had his wand, indicating that he lacked the power to perform hand-magic, despite his various other abilities.
To the other battle, I'd say that Lupin and Sirius win. Sirius has been seen as a very intelligent person and obviously has a good deal of magical potential as he managed to become an Animagus, and Lupin has shown inpressive dueling abilities. Snape alone could take either one, but both of them together would manage to beat Snape.
Tom Riddle vs. Albus Dumbledore (both as students in their final years)
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
Last edited by Council#13 on Aug 17th, 2007 at 04:00 PM
Harry from book 6 or 7 would win, I think, but in a straight-up fight I doubt book 5 Harry would win, and he definitely wouldn't win before that.
But remember that Bones put up a fight against Voldemort himself. Not saying I disagree, but just b/c Snape is one of the most powerful wizards doesn't mean he wins, since Amelia Bones is quite possible THE strongest witch.
You've no proof that it was dark creatures and not spells. I have a hard time believing that they didn't learn any DADA spells until book 4. They probably learned things like the full body bind, jelly legs curse, ect. cause they knew those in book 1, and that's basic DADA stuff.
And yes, Snape became DADA teacher, didn't you read book 6?
Well, obviously the most powerful wizards could perform magic without a wand, unless, of course, Quirrell is THE most powerful wizard, which he isn't. Dumbledore does magic with no wand in the first movie, but I don't know about other ppl in the books. When did Snape fall from the tower?
I agree, Lupin or Sirius alone could likely give Snape a decent fight, together that's like AOTC Obi-Wan times 2 vs. Kit Fisto (think that's a good comparison, Council#13?)
I agree that Quirrell must've taught them some minor spells, but Lupin (who taught defensive magic against mostly dark creatures) was described by the students as, "The best DADA teacher" they had had. Of course, Lockhart wasn't much to compare with, but still. Also, when Snape became Lupin's subsitute in Book 3, he mentions that the class had a decent knowledge of defending themselves against dark creatures, but their knowledge of defense against the Dark Arts was extremely poor.
Yeah, I just forgot. It's not a major theme in that book. Book 6 was the only Harry Potter book I've only read once.
Quirrell snaps his fingers to summon the ropes out of thin air, but unlike in the movie, he doesn't fly at Harry or even attempt to use magic to kill Harry, as far as we've seen. Dumbledore using magic in the first movie does not necessarily correlate with what happens in the book. Snape didn't fall from the tower per se, but he jumped out of it when he was forced to flee from the other teachers.
Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good comparison, although I find it difficult to imagine two Obi-Wan's.
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
When was this stated? If it was in book 3, then yeah, of course he was - Lockhart taught them nothing at all. And even if Quirrell was a mediocre teacher, Lupin (a good teacher), would still be better.
Yes, overall between Quirrell and Lupin (Lockhart didn't do shit) they probably only had like a year's worth of knowledge with spells, which is extremely poor for third years. Luna, on the other hand, was a second year student at that time, and had only really had 1/2 a year of DADA (again, Lockhart's lessons don't even count) and, assuming it was mostly learning about dark creatures, like what Lupin taught the third years, she'd be nothing really, she wouldn't have poor skills, she'd have no skills. And since then Neville learned as much or more than Luna did, and he was already ahead of her, so.
Not true. In book 1, Voldemort says "Kill him!" Here:
"Master, I cannot touch him - my hands - my hands!"
"Then kill him, fool, and be done!" screeched Voldemort.
Quirrell raised his hands to perform a deadly curse, but Harry, by instinct, reached up and grabbed Quirrell's face-
Yes, and turned flew. What does having a wand have to do with flying?
Hmm, good one, Wormtail is pretty average, Lucius is pretty strong, but James is a powerhouse. If he can kill cowardly Wormtail quickly, he could win. I'll say he wins, either he'll finish off Wormtail right away and then beat Lucius one on one, of Wormtail will be to cowardly to do anything (seeing as he knows how much stronger James is then he is, and James is an old friend of his).
I disagree about Tonks, she doesn't have that much experience, Harry has fought in all the battles she has, plus more, and she probably didn't do much in her short time as an Auror.
If Quirrell and Lupin taught two completely different things, I don't think that the students would have been able to make a proper comparison between the two. Also, in the second year, Lockhart introduced Cornish Pixies, showing that defense against magical creatures was probably central in the DADA curriculum.
Judging by what we've seen of Neville up to book 5, he didn't quite absorb everything he was taught. Luna was much more skilled at magic, and manages to perform a Patronus by the end of book 7 (I'm not sure if Neville could or could create a corporal Patronus). Besides, neither one truly learned any actual defensive or offensive magic against other wizards until joining Dumbledore's Army, in which Luna probably performed better than Neville.
Yeah, okay, I was wrong there.
McGonagall said something like, "Yes, he survived. Unlike Dumbledore, he had his wand" or something like that. I can't find my copy of the seventh book. She implies that he used his wand to fly.
Hmmm, I'd say that 2 Obi-Wan's would be a better match against Kit Fisto. Anakin was reckless his whole life, and in AOTC, he didn't have the dueling skills to compensate for it.
I don't actually think we've seen anything exceptional from Lucius Malfoy, and there's no proof that James was a powerhouse. He was a skilled wizard, true, but not to the degree of Dumbledore or Voldemort.
This is a close one. I'd say Lucius Malfoy. Even though Tonks was an Auror, as you've pointed out, she lacks experience. Lucius Malfoy has considerable experience probably from the first wizard war, giving him the advantage.
Lupin vs. McGonagall.
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
Last edited by Council#13 on Aug 21st, 2007 at 03:46 PM
Oooooooooooh, close, hard to say since we've never seen McGonagall in a real fight (where her opponent is trying their hardest). At a guess, perhaps McGonagall, assuming, of course, that "stalemate" is not an option. And you, sire, get the award for posting the hardest battles possible.
Essential, yes, and if you take the first movie as evidence, when McGonagall goes to get Oliver Wood, Quirrell is seen holding a big lizard creature in front of the class. However, I'm sure Quirrell and Lupin both taught them spells, too. But as Lupin was a great teacher, but we only ever hear about him showing the class creatures, it can be deduced that he showed them creatures more often then he taught them spells.
He did in Herbology - in that subject, he was one of the best, maybe even the best, in his year. And DADA is probably his second best subject, and he did good with the Bogart, so most likely he absorbed more stuff in that class than he did in, say, Potions, or Transfiguration.
Hmm, was that right after he jumps, or later in the book? I can't remember anything like that, but I'll try to look for it later.
That's why I said 2 Kenobi's, cause Anakin is to reckless and not strong enough in comparison. Time for a new comparison:
It's like Ki-Adi Mundi and A'Sharad Hett vs. Dooku (or Plo and Mundi vs. Dooku, or Plo and Jinn, something like that?). It's like Yoda and Mace vs. DE Sidious (better?).
Oh, I never said he was on Voldemort or Dumbledore's level, by a powerhosue I mean he was exceptionally strong, for Dumbledore and Voldemort I'd say their extraordinary prodigies. James is just very strong.
I agree, also in book 5 Tonks gets defeated at the Ministry of Magic, and I think the book said something like Malfoy was shooting spells at her, so it's likely he took her out (could have been Bellatrix who was shooting spells at her, though, I'm not positive.) It could also have been a random spell that hit her, but if Malfoy was fighting her already it's likely that it was he who defeated her.
Lupin, Sirius, James vs. Kingsley, Tonks, McGonagall
I'm thinking this will be close, cause Kingsley and McGonagall are probably the 2 strongest, not by much, though, but Tonks is definitely below everybody else.
__________________
Last edited by darthsith19 on Aug 21st, 2007 at 11:04 PM
I finally get an award for all the hard work I've put into everything throughout the course of my life. Thank you.
In Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, they refer to Quirrell's class as a joke: The class everyone had really been looking forward to was Defense Against the Dark Arts, but Quirrell's lessons turned out to be a bit of a joke.
Herbology wouldn't help him very much in a duel. And the rest of the class had no problems with handling a Boggart (excluding Harry). Besides, most of the spells (as we've decided) that they learned in DADA were to be used against dark creatures. Both Luna and Neville received the exact same training from Harry while being part of Dumbledore's Army.
That was right after he jumps. Just after that, the teachers go about preparing Hogwart's defenses.
Honestly, I'm clueless when it comes to any duelists outside of the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon-training period to the ROTJ period. Basically, I only have a real idea of the characters of the PT and Clone Wars era.
Right, I clearly misunderstood you there. But James and Lily were repeatedly said to be "Great wizards", but that might have been due to their personalities and tolerant nature rather than their magical abilities. Not that I'm saying they were worthless, of course, I'm just saying that they were probably around Sirius's level.
Erm, that's a difficult one. I'd say that Lupin, Sirius, and James with this one. Tonks (like you said) is probably the weakest link. Besides, the three of them were best friends, and would be better able to work as a team than the other trio.
Flitwick vs. Kingsley
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
That's close, Flitwick was a dueling champion, but that was in his day. Still, in book 7 he kicks ass, helping McGonagall get rid of Snape, surviving the battle and even taking down Dolohov. It's really impossible to say, cause how hard was it to take down Dolohov? While I think that Kingsley could take down Dolohov, I doubt it would be quick or easy. I'd say Kingsley could likely beat Flitwick, but as we've only ever heard what Flitwick has done, and never have had any details, it's basically an educated guess.
Yes, I know, and I've agreed to this, I said it may have been kind of a lame class, but I'm sure he taught them some stuff.
But the fact that he's excellent at Herbology proves that he can absorb knowledge in areas that he's good in, so DADA he would absorb knowledge in, since it's (probably) his second best subject.
I know Harry taught them the same stuff. So what they recieved in books 2, 3, 4 and 5 would be the same, but Neville progressed faster in book 5 than she did, plus in book 6 he has a N.E.W.T.S DADA class, so he's learn more than she did in book 6, and add to that whatever he learned in book 1, and I'd put him above her, not by a lot, but above her.
Oh, I agree, I'm thinking Lupin, Sirius and James are equals - Lupin never got defeated in a duel, except his final one (where he died). Sirius was strong enough that he was able to duel Bellatrix for some time, and could possibly have beaten her if he hadn't started toying with her (the fact that he started toying with her makes it seem like he was winning). James and Sirius together were enough to take out Snape (during their fifth year). I rank them quite high.
Probably, but Tonks and Lupin are husband/wife, Lupin and McGonagall are old colleagues. I agree, though, I think one of the friends would take Tonks whle the otehrs fight McGonagall and Knigsley. They the friend who killed Tonks could help with McGonagall, 2 on 1, McGonagall goes down, but at the same time Kingsley kills his opponent. The two friends left take out Kingsley then.
There's no proof to support the fact that he had any skill in Defense Against the Dark Arts. Even if he didn't do too well Transfiguration, Potions, and Charms, it doesn't necessarily mean that DADA was one of his strong points.
Like I said earlier, even if he did have a N.E.W.T in DADA, he most likely didn't pick anything up, especially since Snape was the teacher during the sixth book and often bullied Neville.
That's a tough battle. I'd say Bellatrix, though. McGonagall is good, but she's way older than Bellatrix. Also, McGonagall is probably slightly less powerful than Snape, who is probably about the same level and Bellatrix.
Neville's grandmother vs. Lucius Malfoy.
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
Mrs. Longbottom, she seemed real impressive escaping when the Death eaters/Ministry People tried to arrest her, and fighting in the Battle of Hogwarts and all.
There is proof. He only takes 3 N.E.W.T. classes - Herbologry (his best subject and only "O"), Charms and DADA (both which he got "E"'s in). So DADA is either his second or third best subject. He got "A" in Transfiguration, and A or lower in every other subject.
fyi, Ron and Hermione both got "E's" in DADA, so Neville is at least somewhat close to them.
Maybe, but he was better at DADA then at Potions, so he may have learned despite the bullying, especially seeing as after book 5 he really tried hard in DADA due to the escape of the Death eaters / the rise of Lord Voldemort.
So are Voldemort and Dumbledore, though. Just saying, I don't think age makes a huge difference.
Actually, it was just Dawlish who went to arrest her. And he ended up in the hosiptal.
The N.E.W.T's were mostly theological tests, as far as I know. The examinations did require the use of wands, but very limited.
Everyone would have tried very hard in that subject, seeing as the news of Voldemort's rise became public knowledge. I'm not saying that Neville didn't do any better, I'm just saying that his abilities in DADA weren't exceptional, especially since he was very clumsy (something that JK left out in the later books).
I'd say that Aberforth wins this one. He was skilled enough to be able to duel both Albus and Grindelwald, and had no problem standing up to a group of Death Eaters at the door of his pub. The fact that they didn't try to force an entry shows that he was respected by even his enemies and a duelist.
Dawlish vs. Lucius Malfoy.
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
Probably Dawlish - he seems to always have misfortune, but he was one of 2 Auror's that personally protected Fudge, and recieved all "O's" in his N.E.W.T.S.
Neville tried the hardest of all, though, in book 5 it describes how his face was screwed up in concentration.
But he was merely trying to stop Grindelwald and Dumbledore, Grindelwald used the Cruciatus Curse on Aberforth easily, and then Dumbledore stopped him. It was stated before that Aberforth had none of his brothers talent.
As for the Death Eaters, I think they just didn't want to mess with him because he was valuable to them, didn't he say they smuggled dark artifacts through his bar? I don't think they were really afraid of him, and if they were, it was probably because he was supposed to be crazy, performing illegal hexes on goats and breaking Albus's nose and such.
I haven't got any doubts that Neville tried really hard, but how far he got is still debatable.
Grindelwald had caught Aberforth off guard. Even though Albus interfered with Grindelwald cursing Aberforth, the fact that he held his own against both of them is saying something in his favor. It's never stated whether or not it was a fight between all three of them, or if any of them were holding back. I'm not sure if him not having any of his brother's talent was ever stated. I remember reading that Albus could've beaten him with his hands tied behind his back, and that Aberforth was often overshadowed by his brother's brilliance, but I don't think that there was any statement about his abilities as a wizard.
I'm not sure if they did smuggle objects into his bar, but I doubt that they even needed to smuggle by the time they were in control of the Ministry. If the Death Eaters were concerned about Aberforth doing something crazy to them, I'd say that they were afraid of him, even if just a little bit. Imagine him turning them into goats and hexing them.
I'd say Aberforth wins. Dawlish might've been a great theoretical wizard (getting all O's in his NEWTS), but so far we haven't seen anything spectacular from him. In his defense, it's true that both Kingsley and Fudge were knocked out by Dumbledore, and Snape was a powerful wizard so he would've had no troubles Confunding Dawlish, but Neville said something about the Ministry, "Not sending anyone too powerful" to arrest his grandmother.
Tom Riddle vs. Tonks.
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
Tom Riddle when? As a ten-year old? As a 15-year old, as a 20-year old? A 30-year old? That's too vague.
I'm sure Aberforth and Grindelwald were fighting with Albus not fighting either of them, but trying to stop both of them, as that's what makes sense. And trying to stop them likely equates to stopping many deadly spells from Grindelwald.
That's what I meant. If he can beat him so easily and was so much more brilliant than him, then what would make him not a more talented wizard?
Hmm, I don't know, I remember him saying something like that, I'll check later.
Neville could have been mistaken - how would he know how strong Dawlish is, anyway? He probably just assumed, since she escaped, that they didn't send anyone powerful, which is true - Dawlish was confounded, so he wasn't to powerful then.
In book 5 it says he progressed faster than anyone else in the DA apart from Hermione, so how far he got isn't so debatable.
Sorry, I meant Tom Riddle as in when he graduated.
Actually, I forgot to mention this earlier. Ariana was killed during the three-way duel between them, and Albus wasn't sure which of the three had sent the curse that had killed her. That means that all three of them were using offensive spells.
I didn't say that Albus was far superior to Aberforth, I just intended to say that Aberforth must have had some of the magical skill and talent that ran strongly the Dumbledore family's blood.
I'm sure if Dawlish was given to the Minister of Magic for protection, his exploits would've been well known. Seeing as at the time everyone thought that there were no exceptionally powerful dark wizards running loose at the time, the Minister's bodyguards were more likely for show than for actual protection.
Just because Neville progressed quickly does not mean that he performed any better than the rest of them. He may have started far behind the rest of the class, and managed to catch up.
I'd say McGonagall wins this one. Aberforth's skill is unknown, but I'm assuming he's got talent. McGonagall, on the other hand, managed to fight off Snape (even though he wasn't trying to hurt her) and seemed pretty hardcore during all of her duels.
I'll repost that one with Tom Riddle (end of his education) vs. Tonks.
__________________
"Today was good. Today was fun. Tomorrow is another one." -Dr. Seuss
KMC Community Forums
Aug 16th, 2007 05:25 PM
Thanks for the compliment.
Thank you.
