This is an open forum, if you want to think someone is arguing with themselves, go ahead.
And no, I didn't say if rats have a soul, usually people think of soul as consciousness, and consciousness seperates us from what they argue as the "lower" sub-humans, as the lower subhumans seem to be in one mode and careless on how that effects others or the object AND MAINLY OTHER LIFE FORMS.
you need to answer this point before you go any further
this would indicate that the phenomena you are describing occurs at a "sub-conscious" level and that an animal can still be "sub human" [I'd love to know where you think you got these terms from] and possess the ability to communicate emotion or even for "emotional contageon"
our consciousness gives us an explanation for our emotional state. It happens with about a half second delay from the experience of the emotion.
emotion -> 500ms -> conscious explanation for why we are experiencing the emotion
there are 30 years worth of excellent and pretty much irrefutable experimentation that shows many things.
For instance, were I to monitor the activity in your pre-motor cortex, I would know when you were going to move before you did. Notice, it is not that I know you are going to move before you move, it is that I know you are going to move before you become aware of your desire to move.
The same can be done for simple yes or no questions.
People can be put into emotional states through the exposure to information that is unavailable to conscious awareness. In cases like this, people are very hard pressed and will come up with exceptionally elaborate stories to explain their emotional state, even though it may be as apparent a stimuli as a naked woman presented only to one eye.
At this point I will say that, barring some strange study or experiment that you are privy to and the rest of us not, that you are misguided on your understanding of human and animal cognition.
The only concilation I can offer you is that the vast majority of people think the same way you do, in fact our brain is set up to make us feel that way (ie, we are naturally dualists). It is very counter-intuitive to think that our consciousness is not really what it seems like, and could actually not even exist, but the fact that it doesn't sit right intellectually is not an argument against empirical findings.
empirical findings are just observations, if you observe something long enough, it's becomes an empiricial perspective.
and, i think consciousness comes first, then emotion, and then MOTION (speed of energy) and then THOUGHT, we are motivated by our conscious to have emotion and thought and then, maybe, action.
I, as well as most other people who are concerned with the science of human neurology and cognition, care very deeply.
Not because you believe it, but because there are people who are going to read what you post, and what I have posted, and since people are inherently ignornat, will likely think that there is an iota of truth to what you say. I feel as though I have failed those people, but that may just be a desire to martyr myself.
You haven't martyred yourself. And, I doubt people are inherently ignorant, I guess I don't start off thinking less of another individual, making that person work to prove me wrong - causing them to work hard to remove a stigma placed on them, that's like putting them at (negative) -1,000 before they have a chance, if they bother my liberty or try to play games or try to bully my thoughts of myself, i ignore them and if it happens a lot in a particular culture, it'll be an emperical observation and i'll end up critical of that culture. I rather start at 0 and have faith. If they take the time to read our conversation, they'll probably read the link too, and draw their own conclusions.
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Last edited by Czarina_Czarina on Aug 29th, 2007 at 05:28 PM
lol, maybe not inherently ignorant, but our brains aren't made to understand "true" things, only things that we want to understand, and normally will believe things that make us feel good.
the thing is, that this conversation and that link are misleading. There is no good reason to believe what you do aside from the happiness it brings and the philosophical/spiritual feelings. As far as truth goes, I would reccomend people not read this conversation
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Aug 29th, 2007 03:57 PM
