That's true, but most of the time if the bad guy is stronger than the good guy in comics the good guys use their smarts to beat the bad guuys. Spider-man is a good example. He never defeated Venom with his bare hands without help, tricks, planning etc. and he fought Venom more times than Venom fought Carnage, still Venom has at least 3 victories (if we do not count several fights per issue) over Carnage who only won once and one stalemate. And im only talking about fair 1 on 1 fights without help from others, sonic guns etc.
Savage alliance - Carnage
Maximum Carnage - Venom several times (you're right, Venom had to sacrifice himself in the end, but that can be easilly explained by the fact that he was already worn out after the hours of torture and hours of fighting so wanted to finish it quickly, but he clearly was winning every fight they had, even ripped Carnage's face off)
Trial - Venom twice
Unleashed - stalemate (even though Carnage had an advantage over Venom, he had an experience fightin in net while Venom tried it for the first time, he said that himself)
Venom vs Carnage - Venom. At first Brock tried to reason with him but later overpowered him in the underground.
I really think that the upgrade he got during the run counts, i mean look at Scorpion-Venom, he may be a loser but ive never seen Venom grow size of a building until the upgrade. Now he does it all the time.
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Last edited by SamZED on Oct 20th, 2009 at 09:38 PM
Well done! You really know your stuff
Maybe your right, maybe I'm just a stubborn Carnage fan who wont let his first appearances go. Maybe Venom is stronger now and that's why Carnage turned into kind of a lame character., and that's why only us die hards really cared when they killed him off. Maybe what I should be saying is ... In order for Carnage to work, he needs to be stronger than Venom, because he needs to pose a threat. hhmmm I've heard in a few different places that Carnage is making his return maybe they will give him some sort of power boost from being in space or whatever! Then they can make some good Venom/Carnage comics!!! The Venom vs Carnage comic blew my mind, the art was fantastic! We need more stuff like that in the future (I know the story was full of holes, but it was still a good read)
Yeah, I liked it too. And you're making good points, Carnage originally was meant to be a stronger more evil version of Venom, that's the problem, Venom in time proved that he can fight Carnage while Carnage didnt get an proper character development and simply being a more evil version of a another character doesnt cut it. If they ever bring him back (and im sure they will, its been stated in secret war that there's a possibility that the symbiote Sentry ripped in two was hostless, so Cassidy is stil around somehwere) writers should develop his character a bit further. Maybe give him some kind of motivation other than senseless killing. I found it touching in a sick kind of way when Jackal insulted Shriek and Carnage got really pissed at him for that and wanted to to tear him to pieces.
EDIT: btw great avatar, if the Joker ever gets his hands on the symbiote the world will come to an end.
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Last edited by SamZED on Oct 21st, 2009 at 08:54 AM
And how is your assumption any more plausible than mine? Aside from that, I never assumed that Venom was back in prefect condition. I'm not denying that Venom was still severely weakened, only doubting. Brock clearly saw his opportunity to strike Carnage down, after Kasady was mind-raped by Deathlok's mechanism, regardless of his physical state and set out for the kill. What you're trying to do is pass off Carnage's mind-rape situation as being something that's typical of lil' ol' crazy Carnage, but as the events unfolded, it's pretty simple to see that Carnage was truly suffering from what Deathlok blasted him with and that it attributed to him performing poorly against Venom. You're clearly denying that fact.
Because Carnage is stronger than Venom.
Remember, Carnage is crazy, right? And the upgrades... well... none of the writers seem to be taking those into account anymore these days. Infact, I don't recall them ever taking them into account.
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Last edited by Phoenix2001 on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:41 AM
I never denied that Carnage wasnt in his right mind, I said that myself. What YOU are ignoring is the fact that Brock's physical state more than compincates for Carnage mental problem and you're trying to make it look like the only reason Brock was beating Carnage is because he had an unfair advantage over him. And my assumption is more plausable than yours because it's backed up with the fact that Brock was too weak to stand let alone fight when Carnage appeared, while your assumption is disproved by Carnage himself who even though was talking to himself, rembering stuff etc confirmed that "my mind may be freaking out on me Brock but im still stronger and faster than you" and attacked only to get punched in the face and at THE TIME it was clear that his mental problems in no way effected his ability to fight, but he got beaten any way. Yet you keep insisting that that's the only reason Brock was winning because you're to used to people on the forum repeating "Carnage-is-stronger-than-Spider-and-Venom-combined" over and over again and refuse to let it go even though everything suggests that its a false assumption. And why do you act like Maximum Carnage is the only example of Venom beating Carnage? In unleashed it was a stalemate even though Carnage had an advantage over Venom. In Venom vs Carnage Brock overpowered him. In trial he took him down TWICE without much efforts even though both Spider-man and Daredevil were getting in the way. Heck even Venom's random showings against other characters put him above Carnage. Yet you keep insisting that Carnage is stronger because you're too used to that thought.
Based on what? 20 year old "savage alliance" book and people on the forum who read it but didnt bother to read other fights so they keep repeating the same thing over and over again? Their 1 on 1 fights as well as Carnage's own words beg to differ.
Carnage is crazy, but I dont see how it has anything to do with him confirming that Venom's his superior. And you cant blame him concidering that Venom was the one who put him in prison after givving him a beating and later without any efforts murdered the guards that were keeping Carnage in it. As for upgrades Venom absorbing Carnage symbiote might've been forgotten. But him absorbing his clone wasnt. After that book Spider-man confirmed that Venom seems stronger than ever, and Scorpion-Venom when gets pissed off grows size of a building, an ability Venom had never displayed before.
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Last edited by SamZED on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 AM
a long while back i had a screen saver that was carnage with his hands tighly wrapped around the throats of vemon and spiderman. They were trying to escape the grasp but couldn't.
Carnage had'em one on each hand.
badass.
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I think that was a cover to savage alliance, yeah looked badass.
Well I guess he was meant to be stronger at first, or maybe it was the first appearance thing, when introducing new characters they usually try to make them seem super badass. I mean, didnt Rhino beat Hulk the first time he appeared?
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Oct 20th, 2009 09:35 PM
And why do you act like Maximum Carnage is the only example of Venom beating Carnage? In unleashed it was a stalemate even though Carnage had an advantage over Venom. In Venom vs Carnage Brock overpowered him. In trial he took him down TWICE without much efforts even though both Spider-man and Daredevil were getting in the way. Heck even Venom's random showings against other characters put him above Carnage. Yet you keep insisting that Carnage is stronger because you're too used to that thought.
