I'm literally just getting tired of debating this topic.
What I am going to do though is show you something. Guildo had a PL of 23k whereas Gohun and Krillin was 25k. They did all of this so fast (in the blink of Guildo super speed eyes) that Guildo didn't see anything that happened... it was all invisible to him.
They shoot a blast... beat the blast to its location (Guildo) all before Guildo knew what was going on... hell, he couldn't even find them.
So what do we get out of this scan... even though the PL difference isn't major, the speed difference is ENORMOUS... to the point where the person with the slightly lower PL can't even see his opponents and basically becomes a statue.
The smallest gap in power becomes a major increase in speed. I'm just tired of the rest of our discussion because you keep repeating yourself and the things that you are saying really isn't aiding in our discussion.
Thanks Nemebro... I kind of had the feeling I was off by a bit. It still helps my argument that Guildo couldnt perceive Krillin and Gohun who wasn't that far above him PL wise.
As for your comment about Burta... well, he THOUGHT of himself as one of the fastest but going by the showings Goku had against the Ginyu force, it wasn't that much of a difference and he seemed slower than Jeice.
Also, wasn't Burta PL under Jeice and above Recoome?
Burter(62k), Jeice(64k) and Ginyu(120k) all stated that Burta was the fastest. (Racoom was 65k)
..Urmm, actually.. you got the numbers wrong. Guldo's PL was 13,500, Gohan was PL 14,000 and Krillin was PL 13,000. Krillin was much faster even with a lower powerlevel, should have check that first as it makes this post null.
We also have a PL250,000+ Vegeta's speed being on par with PL530,000 Frieza the method you're using is fruitless. [280,000 difference]
Or how about PL8,000 Goku still being able to perceive a PL18,000 Vegeta, unlike Guldo who couldn't even see Gohan and Krillin. [10,000 difference]
(More if you include Goku being able to avoid a PL100,000+ Oozaru Vegeta [100,000 difference])
Also how the difference between Goku and Racoom's speed was far greater than the difference between Racoom and Vegeta, even thought the PL's would say the opposite would be true or it'd be an equal increase.
The Burter thing above.^
Lastly theres how a PL80,000 Goku (Ginyu said before the kaio-ken that his power was below 85,000) was faster than a PL120,000 Ginyu. [40,000 difference]
Look, if you want to say that someone with a higher PL is faster then you're more than welcome to. What you cant do is try to state exactly how fast they would be as there isn't any correlation to get direct numbers. Attempting to say that SSJ1 Goku is lightspeed as his PL is millions of times higher than during Snake Way doesn't work.
What I find interesting is that the second I prove that humans can perceive the beams, which kills the lightspeed beams argument, and then ask you to prove the main foundation of your argument you suddenly get tired of debating. Is is some massive coincidence or do you concede to this:
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
I maintain that Power Level only signifies the amount of energy each character has. It explains why they recognize people with a higher level as being way more powerful. They can't sense how fast they are or how strong they are by sensing a power level.
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All hail Scythe, King of the Sigs.
Burta wasn't the fastest though and that's the main point. I am pretty sure they said ONE of the fastest but even then it would be a lie since Burta was unable to lay a glove on Goku but Jeice was able to blast Goku into a trick and Ginyu was actually tagging/giving Goku hell.
The only reason Krillin did so well against Guildo is because he was teamed with Gohun which was tricking Guildo senses. I shouldn't have brought that fight up since it really didn't help my case but it did show Gohun and Krillin moving faster then their blast so the only thing we have to prove now is how fast their ki attacks are.
We know why Goku was able to perceive Vegeta, he was amping himself throughout the fight.
WTF...
Vegeta was never on par with frieza.
When Vegeta received that sensu bean, he was able to perceive both Goku AND Ginyu... before this, his PL wasn't in thed 100K.
Goku during his fight against the Ginyu force was amping his ki almost instantly and dropping it down to level 10 when they were trying to read his PL with the scouter... Ginyu even states this while fighting Goku and admits that its pointless using the scouter against him. That's why Goku was able to keep up with Ginyu... he was amping throughout the fight instantly.
You never refuted my argument and like I told you before, your scans didn't show a human perceiving a z fighters attacks.
if carver9 thinks that goku losses he isnt a real db fan and he souldnt post again.vegeta and nappa came to earth in around 1 year from a FAR FAR FAR FAR away place with spaceships those space ships were MUCH ftl but they used them not for speed but cuz they might have a problem breathing in space.lol to think that vegeta scouter might be faster that a spaceship which is EXTREMELY faster than light then what could you think of vegeta ssj4 speed?
Just because I like Goku and DBZ peeps doesn't mean they can beat anybody. Even though they are powerful, they have limits just like any other character does.
I think a lot of people low ball them because they don't want them being more powerful than characters that they like but overall, DBZ is hellava powerful... has even been called gods BUT they are not unbeatable.
^Went through a fan-rage when I saw people saying the Sailor Moon or Tenchi Muyo verse is >> the DBZ verse... can now admit to this after research and dropping the fan-goggles. (The rage is still here though... >___> )
Lol so now hyperhole means something. They all boasted, he even thought himself, that he was the fastest person around. Goku was distracted by Ginyu, naturally got caught off-guard.
The max Goku could go to without Kaio-ken was 8,000. At his best before x2 he was able to see some of Vegeta's moves.
Oozaru makes a Saiyans PL increase by 10x, aye.
Mhmm, before he transformed he attacked Vegeta who graciously caught his attack with little difficulty. With a PL gap that large Freeza should of had little difficulty if the scaling matched up. Heck even Gohan was momentarily able to tag a PL1mil Freeza, all three able to keep track of Freeza and Piccolo fighting.
That was after his Zenkai kicked in and increased his PL. Before Racoom he was PL30k to Racoom's 65k, Goku was 90k. PL scaling and percentage says that Racoom should have been blitzing Vegeta faster than Goku was blitzing him.
That was before the fight. During the fight Ginyu said nothing about Goku's PL, he only mentioned it before he demonstrated his Kaio-ken where he guessed it would go up to 85k then the actual reading later. The point is that base Goku's full speed is faster than Ginyu's full speed, making a lower PL faster than a higher PL.
Several people in the Buu image, which is pretty clear, for starters. Beams launch people as fast as the beams itself, just like when people get caught in the blasts. Eg Roshi and Shen would be moving at the same speed as they're being propelled by the same beam, yet you think Roshi was moving slower than Shen for some reason.
...aw no fair, ya got me answering your post before you answered mine >; So gonna give me an answer or not? This is your foundation point so you must to be able to back it up, if not the whole FTL defense crumbles here and now.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
goku destroys the sailor moon verse himself in 5 millionseconds.what are you talking about?tenchi muyo verse is suckish goku would find a way to rape tenchi hard.no one can beat him.also he have the dragonballs in his body
5 milliseconds, and he sadly doesn't (heavy on the sadly) they have cosmic immortals and are even faster than DS. And dude, Tenchi becomes an omnipotent god. And as we know omnipotent beings cant be beaten.
I have a thing for conflict ^^ can't help but continue until the debate has a clear answer.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
anyway dbzverse is massively faster than light.goku will wipe out sailor moon verse in less that 5 millionseconds.tenchi will be hard to beat but goku wins
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May 2nd, 2011 12:50 AM
