Some of the things, like Guardian's teleportation and durability should be irrelevant. Seeing as Apocalypse is a lot stronger than Wonder man and has a pretty decent teleportation device as well.
And the way you referred to Maddison Jeffries as the best technopath ever and thusly simply shrugged off the possibility of Apocalypse taking over his technology. Even when he was shown manipulating an insanely complicated virus and so on.
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yeah. i would have callled you on those. and some other things. I was like, hey how is he saying this when he hasn't shown someone of Apocs ability doing the same. But I don't have time now to go into detail. You still won. Wether by a mile or a centimeter. A win is a win.
Ummm..I never onced used btf removal as an option to win, but as a means to counter Apoc from doing it to him hence why it was in the defense section. What does Wonder Man have to do with anything? If your talking about when Wonder Man fought Heather Hudson I will ask..why? She's weaker then James Hudson, and even stated she was holding back as she didn't want to hurt him.
Are you familar with Madison Jeffries at all? He is considered to be the best technopath basically in all of Marvel and that was stated.
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Galactus is a jobber. I take nothing anyone post about him in a match up seriously. He is aweful. He has gotten his ass kicked everytime he enters earth's atmosphere. I didn't know Ranark, or tundra had complete control over thier molecules. And I didn't know apoc was that slow. The entire argument tricks showed no speed feats of apoc, none of his energy absorbtion and redirecting. I was baffled at the whole fight. But you did win and made me respect this guardian. I'll have to challenge him some day with Orion.
He can't show Apoc's speed feats as he doesn't have any or redirecting high calibur energy users [ie. Guardian]. Basically Trick looked through the entire Apoc respect thread and grabbed all those scans. See for yourself
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The trick is, to show respect for the energy wielders apoc has owned, and then show apoc redirecting thier energy. And I know apoc has some speed feats. I've seen a couple down thru the years. If he argued better, i could have been split in a draw. But he didn't. Really diminishes my respect for the character of apoc.
and I'll ask, against who? I have read most of his apperances and not once did he ever go even close to say mach 30 or anywhere near that. Same with energy attacks. Apoc is strong, very strong but his best showings are against Ikaris and High Evolutionary.
EDIT: BAH! No point debating anymore, as the fight is over and it's up to the other judges now
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Last edited by -K-M- on Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:14 PM
HE at full power? No, but Apoc didn't beat him or HE at full power. Ikaris, it's possible.
I didn't show all Guardian's abilities, such as he has gone toe to toe physically with class 100 brutes. Hell I was reading for more arguements and points I assure you I wasn't done
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Last edited by -K-M- on Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:31 PM
He only posted once with no structure or clear plan of attack. Apparently I must not have done a good job at all since I tried to make as many points as possbile
Off topic: Can you direct me to ANY scans that put the Great beasts on skyfather level? Because while the respect thread was nice, it didn't have any feats that put them on Skyfather level. I saw some REALLY small scale reality warping, which is nothing compared to Loki's stuff really...
Havok used his energies to hold back Xorn's little star, Apocalypse had no problems redirecting that. Cyclops has output compared to a nuclear warhead and Apocalypse took all of it, absorbed it and ate it. Or simply reflecting Jean's telepathic attacks right back at her.
Apocalypse also has plenty speed feets, such as dodging attacks from the HE and Loki. Loki who can blink from Asgard to Midgard in a second and dodges attacks from Thor like there's no tomorrow.
There is no way to measure how strong Galactus was in his depowered state, and while you say that the other characters were unable to put him down. I can say that they CONTRIBUTED to putting him down. It's almost comparable to kill stealing....
As far as Wonder Man goes, I was referring to when you said that Heather's shield kept her from being seriously injured. Apocalypse has dropped strong people with his punches, I wouldn't put Wonder Man close to his strength.
Either way, this is turning into another discussion.
Their stated as such, Elder Gods of the night. They don't have many feats as they havn't appeared much. Just recently Tanaraq made 4 Beta Ray Bill level hearlds with no trouble at all. However, they are stated to be skyfather's.
That was classic Cyclops who didn't have unlimited energy then. He frequently tired himself out. Also same for classic Havok who wasn't nearly as strong as what he is today.
HE and Loki are not speedster, FAR FAR FAR from it
Wow, clearly you didn't read my posts at all. I never once made a claim on how strong Galactus was there as a I constantly refered to him as weakened. What was important with those scans was the combined team of Avengers/Alpha Flight couldn't do what Mac did with one attack
No I didn't I said MAC'S shields not Heathers were stopped by stronger beings/attacks. I know you like Apoc, but come on.
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Last edited by -K-M- on Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:55 PM
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