The fastest I've ever seen Superman being clocked fighting is mach 1, but that's ignoring the fact that even the low level speed fights in DB blows Superman's highest showings out the water and Superman isn't nearly as adept at parrying and sidestepping as the fighters in DB.
Once again it comes down to this
Strength
Superman >>> Goku
Skill
Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman
ain't even close
Speed
Goku >> Superman
Durability
Superman = Goku
Intelligence
As far as the stuff that matters (as in, battle savvy and in fight smarts, overall craftyness and such)
Goku >> Superman
Energy Projection
Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman
ain't even close
hell Goku also has the psychological edge as he'll kill
Because the DB fights have been clocked at any speed whatsoever fighting..
What has Gokou ever shown to put himself even close to Superman's strength level?
Superman has proven wihen he's been depowered that he has skills. He just doesn't use them even though he has them. He may not be a better fighter than Gokou but he isn't extremely far behind him.
When has Gokou ever moved faster then Superman has?
Gokou's durability equal to Superman's? Not even close. Not physical anyways. Gokou gets hurt by punches that aren't even close to what Superman can dish out if he really wanted to while Superman may get knocked around but he doesn't always get hurt just because he's getting knocked around. As for energy blasts Gokou hasn't taken any blast worthy of notice at all. Any major blasts he's dodged or blocked with one of his own.
Superman's a whole lot smarter than Gokou and more strategic. Superman wins this one with ease.. When has Gokou ever shown any kind of brains?
This is probably the only one Gokou has over Superman at all but Superman still has his own Heat Vision so Superman isn't completely stompred in this but Gokou does win this.
Gokou only really killed in DBZ because there was no other choice. Radditz, Yakon, and Kid Buu. How many people he killed in DB besides Piccolo though I'm not sure since I don't remember it as much. Superman's killed because he had no other choice also. Doomsday twice, and 3 evil Kryptonians.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
No, but they have been shown with Flash level goofiness (like Roshi and Krillin's first fight) and speedsters (like Gohan) have been shown unable to see other speedsters (like Yamcha) move without having to focus and train their eyes.
What has Gokou ever shown to put himself even close to Superman's strength level?
Able to easily maneuver in 300x's Earth gravity, chucks a big ass block of the densest metal in the world at Gohan, a 40 ton base limit followed by the fact that the Daizenshuu's have SSJ as a 500x's increase (which means 500x500x500 at maximum), out-musceled someone capable of throwing a one ton steel column across the world while riding on it, etc.
Superman has proven wihen he's been depowered that he has skills. He just doesn't use them even though he has them.
1.) That's only relevant if Superman is depowered for the fight at hand (since these skills mysteriously disappear when he's powered).
2.) They are bush league shit that even people like Emma Frost could replicate.
He may not be a better fighter than Gokou but he isn't extremely far behind him.
Change may not to is not and leave out the n't in the second one and you have a correct statement.
When has Gokou ever moved faster then Superman has?
Shunkan Idou is instantaneous movement, which is just as relevant as Superman moving xlight to travel. When has Superman been shown to fight someone as fast as he travels? Goku has actually used Shunkan Idou in battle.
Gokou's durability equal to Superman's? Not even close.
Gokou gets hurt by punches that aren't even close to what Superman can dish out
How do you know? Considering Piccolo was shown to easily blow up a moon and not even tickle RADITZ I find this statement lacking in anything resembling truthful.
As for energy blasts Gokou hasn't taken any blast worthy of notice at all.
laul Freeza at the beginning of the series was able to blow up a planet which was 10x's the mass of the Earth AND Vegeta was stated as capable to blow up the Earth in the Saiyan Saga. Keep in mind this is not even Cell Saga shit. While Superman
GETS HIS ASS KICKED BY JOHN STEWART!
Superman's a whole lot smarter than Gokou and more strategic.
Hell no. Goku and Vegeta have both been stated by Piccolo and Roshi to be genius's on the battlefield and Goku has demonstrated this, time and time again.
When has Gokou ever shown any kind of brains?
All over the series, the guy replicated flight by spinning his tail, pointed out to Krillin that he could beat the stinky dude because he didn't have a nose and learned to fire a Kamehameha from his feet on the fly. Goku's never been portrayed as unintelligent, just innocent, sheltered and pure.
Remember, before it was learned that he was a alien with fighting in his blood, he was thought of as some country genius who was able to instantly adapt any style of any martial art and devise a tactic to take anyone down. Roshi thought he was unbeatable, at 14.
This is probably the only one Gokou has over Superman at all but Superman still has his own Heat Vision so Superman isn't completely stompred in this but Gokou does win this.
Yeah he is completely stomped, heat vision hasn't shown NEARLY as much destructive potential as Goku's ki nor the versatility.
Gokou only really killed in DBZ because there was no other choice. Radditz, Yakon, and Kid Buu.
So?(outside of Doomsday) Superman would NEVER kill, push comes to shove Goku will, oh and Yakon was him accidentally doing it and going oops (basically shrugging it off) and you missed Freeza and #19 (who he went in with the intent of killing but couldn't due to heart failure).
How many people he killed in DB besides Piccolo though I'm not sure since I don't remember it as much.
The entire Red Ribbon Army, a bunch of people prior to the first tourny with Roshi (hell he left the carrot guy on the moon lol) and pretty much any bad guy he came across he tried to kill. He only stopped because Kami told him it was bad.
Superman's killed because he had no other choice also. Doomsday twice, and 3 evil Kryptonians.
After the first time DD doesn't count and the 3 Kryptonians have been retconned out of existance, remember?
And everybody saw the rest of Roshi and Krillen's fight except for that one instant. And moving faster than somebody can see doesn't suddenly make them faster than Superman when he's done plenty of things in the span of time it takes somebody to say one sentence.
Gokou has only went up to 100x Earth gravity, and that block of metal can't be that heavy if Gokou was able to lift it easily with his 10 ton base level seeing as how he isn't 40 ton base level, and when does it state Taopaipai threw it across the world? Not that Superman couldn't easily chuck that same thing to the moon so that really isn't anything special to do.
Just because he doesn't use his abilities doesn't mean he doesn't have them. He doesn't always use ice breath but he has the ability to do so. He also has some martial art skills and fighting skills in general after being taught by Mongul, Batman, and Wonder Woman.
IT isn't travel speed..but you have me on that one.....
Piccolo could blow up the moon with a blast....Punches aren't blast. I'd like to see Piccolo even attempt to destroy the moon with a punch.
And NONE of the blasts ever hit Gokou. Galick Gun...he blocked, the blast Freeza used to destroy Namek hit Namek. Never has Gokou taken blasts not worthy in power. Dodged sure, blocked with his own yes, never taken a hit from. Also John Stewart is a GL...He'd kick Gokou's butt also.
Gokou has been stated to be a genius at fighting and learning moves sure but he hasn't really shown any type of strategy during fights that I can recall.
And I don't know about the 3 Kryptonian things..I can't remember if it has or not.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Wait, did you just compare Roshi and Krillin to the Flash?
That's completely ridiculous. They performed 10-15 actions in 1 second, that's equivalent to reaction times a few dozen times greater than peak human level.
Not Mr. "I can run halfway around the world, knock a vase out of someone's hand, run another halfway around the world, punch a guy into space, then run back and catch the vase before it hits the ground".
Not to mention that Superman can tag the Flash without too much trouble:
^No DBZ character has ever shown speed, either travel or reaction, anywhere close to that
DBZ characters can only move fast enough to be invisible for short bursts lasting a few seconds at a time. The rest of the time, normal people can see them just fine.
oh also does anyone have the scans from the respect thread where superman takes two planet destroying blasts (from some space ship) consecutively, he was working with the justice league to take down the ship
in the beginning of DB. Let's also not forget Goku moving so fast he appeared to be standing still to the second fastest person in the Universe at the time (Baata as well as Jeece, Krillin, Vegeta and Gohan)
Let's also not forget these opponents were speedblitzing.
Oh and then there's Gohan being unable to track Yamcha and the Saibaman's fight until he was told to channel his ki.
Gokou has only went up to 100x Earth gravity,
Vegeta was at 300 gs in the beginning of the Cell saga and was able to move around at 175 with ease at Base in the beginning of the Buu Saga (hell Trunks was jumping around and laughing at 175 when he went Super Saiyan).
By all means argue that Vegeta at Cell saga is stronger then Goku at the end of the series.
and that block of metal can't be that heavy if Gokou was able to lift it easily
How do you know? It was 8x's the size of Goku and completely made up of the hardest and densest metal in the U. And Goku through it like a pitcher throws a fast ball. Even if it's only 10 tons that's a > Class 40 feat.
with his 10 ton base level seeing as how he isn't 40 ton base level,
Lol whut? Goku is easily class 40 at the lowest at base as he was able to stay afloat with 40 tons around his body at base. If anything he's higher then Class 40 since you never train with the same weight you lift (ie someone who bench presses 200 lbs can not train with 200 lbs spread out around their body).
and when does it state Taopaipai threw it across the world?
He went to the Red Ribbon base to where Tuupa's dad was (the axis of the Earth). Goku had to actively travel from the location to get to the Red Ribbon base and it took him a long time riding Nimbus.
Not that Superman couldn't easily chuck that same thing to the moon so that really isn't anything special to do.
I doubt Superman could "easily" chuck it to the moon. Especially while riding on top of it (and it's not like Tao Pai Pi was really exerting himself either).
Just because he doesn't use his abilities doesn't mean he doesn't have them.
Yeah, it just means that the only thing that's making Superman use these once in 100 issue abilities against Goku is that fans on the internet want to find a way for him to win against Goku (note Superman fans are SEARCHING for reasons with which Superman can win, Goku fans already have theirs).
[i[He doesn't always use ice breath but he has the ability to do so.[/i]
Yeah, but it isn't likely to play a huge role in the fight.
He also has some martial art skills and fighting skills
Some martial arts skill versus a universal class martial artist.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
IT isn't travel speed..but you have me on that one.....
Goku uses IT when he wants to travel long distances in the same way Superman goes x amount of light to travel long distances. Superman has probably never in his career had a fight with which he was moving faster then your average DBZer.
Piccolo could blow up the moon with a blast....Punches aren't blast.
All a ki blast is, is a large release of kinetic energy, a more efficient punch, which basically means, if you can hurt Raditz (who shrugged off the very same attack Pic used to blow away the moon) you can shatter the moon.
And NONE of the blasts ever hit Gokou. Galick Gun...he blocked, the blast Freeza used to destroy Namek hit Namek. Never has Gokou taken blasts not worthy in power. Dodged sure, blocked with his own yes, never taken a hit from.
So you're telling me that if Vegeta at the Saiyan Saga fired a Galick Gun at SSJ3 Goku, he'd feel it?
I hope you aren't. Hell King Cold almost killed someone for comparing Freeza's durability to that of a "mere planet." and hell Freeza was able to survive a exploding planet after being cut in half and having the left side of his body blown off by Goku.
And the Freeza beam I was talking about was the off panel planet Vegeta one (since everyone likes to point out that Freeza set off a reaction in the core or something stupid).
Also John Stewart is a GL...He'd kick Gokou's butt also.
No he wouldn't .
Gokou has been stated to be a genius at fighting and learning moves sure but he hasn't really shown any type of strategy during fights that I can recall.
Re-read early DB, there's nothing but tactics in that one. Like Goku using his tail to stay in the ring by spinning it. Or him tooling the ninja from the RR army by pointing out how flawed his hiding tactics were.
And I don't know about the 3 Kryptonian things..I can't remember if it has or not.
I thought it was retconned, hell didn't they just make reapparances in Action Comics/Superman (forget which one)?
I think you should try reading some DB for a change, ye might learn something.
BTW how is playing 3 games of Rock, Paper, Scissors and throwing flurries of kicks and punches in the blink of the eye only "15x's greater then peak human speed"?
Random mathematics made with the sole intention of undercutting DB for the win!
Because the fact that people in later episodes can see the fight happening easier and nothing ever happens like Roshi vs Krillen so it must be only when the cut loose even though Gokou said he was doing his best against Cell so that fight must have took what 1 or 2 seconds since SSJ Gokou would be ever faster.
And yet even though Gokou moved faster than Krillen could see Krillen has no trouble seeing a much faster and stronger Freeza fighting. DBZ if full of nothing but inconsistencies.
Didn't Piccolo tell Gohan to let his eyes go out of focus and follow the light from their ki or something like that? Or am I just confusing the english version with the manga..
In the manga Vegeta never goes to 300 and Trunks is only in 100 and he can't hardly even move until he goes ssj not 175.
It wasn't 8x's Gokou's size..and it was the hardest metal in the universe. And Gokou wasn't lifting that 40 tons at all. He was straining against the 40 tons trying to stay afloat until he goes ssj.
Because Gokou has to ride on Nimbus to get there it's around the world? Let's also not forget that the DB Earth isn't anything like Regular Earth so we don't even know if it's bigger or smaller. And you don't even know how far it was from where Taopaipai was at from it. He could have been miles or it could be on the other side of the Earth but does it ever really say?
Superman could easily chuck it to the moon and arrive in time to catch it and throwing it even faster than Taopaipai threw it and he could probably just catch a ride on it also if he didn't destroy it in the process of trying. Didn't he say how long it would take for him to get there?
I ain't searching for any reason Superman can win. He doesn't even need to be more skilled in martial arts when he can just fly into him faster than light and create a smear. Though you're just going to day Gokou has faster than light reflexes and would just dodge even though he's never shown them whatsoever.
Yea I worded the IT thing wrong..I was in a hurry to get to work. I meant it isn't Gokou's own traveling speed but teleporting. Also prove that Gokou has fought as fast as you think he has?
Last time I checked punches don't disintegrate things that engulf them or create explosions. It's energy no physical. If Roshi could throw a punch that could shatter the moon then any area fighting around people would be destroyed from the shockwaves of there punches since DB yet no place has ever been destroyed from a punch..There is no proof they can even hit that hard.
No Saiyan Saga Vegeta wouldn't hurt SSJ3 Gokou with Galick Gun but it's also not a true planet destroying blast either. Unless Saiyan Saga Vegeta Galick Gun > Fat Buu's Kamehameha. And can you prove that Freeza didn't use a chain reaction to destroy Vegeta? He had to hit the core of Namek and he said he didn't use enough power to blow it up and he was at his final form. And both SSJ Gokou's Kamehameha and Vegeta's Galick Gun were pointed at the Earth which would drill through it while the Kamehameha Gokou deflected that killed 1/10th of the Earth's population exploded on the surface. So yea unless you're saying SSJ Gokou, Final Form Freeza, and Saiyan Saga Vegeta > Fat Buu then they can't destroy the planet without a chain reaction.
You're trying to tell me that a GL would loose to Gokou? I don't care if John Stewart is the worst out of him, Hal, Kyle, and Guy any of them would own him even faster than Superman would.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Supes has never fought, punched, dodged at light speed. he just punches som random guy or gal miles away then flys at them at light speed, or while he is fighting he punches slow like he always does while flying at lightspeed
Actually it was later episodes where speed really became a big deal. People were having trouble following Tien in his rematch against Goku and NOBODY could see him move once he took off his weights. Goku and Piccolo could barely track Raditz movements. Gohan couldn't see the others fighting the saibamen. The only person who noticed that Goku hit Recuum 3x's was Vegeta, and nobody else even saw him move. List goes on.
And yet even though Gokou moved faster than Krillen could see Krillen has no trouble seeing a much faster and stronger Freeza fighting.
When did Krillin have no trouble seeing Freeza? To my memory Krillin got gored because he couldn't track Freeza's movements then cut his tail off when he was revived only to be saved by Piccolo or someone, forget who.
Didn't Piccolo tell Gohan to let his eyes go out of focus and follow the light from their ki or something like that?
Yeah.
In the manga Vegeta never goes to 300
On panel he never goes to 300. He stated to Briefs that he wanted 3x's the amount Goku had (100) and IIRC even told everyone he trained at 300gs when he first went Super Saiyan.
and Trunks is only in 100 and he can't hardly even move until he goes ssj not 175.
I believe it was 175. And the fact that Vegeta wasn't bothered by (at least) 100 at this moment in the story backs up the 300 claim.
It wasn't 8x's Gokou's size..and it was the hardest metal in the universe.
Hardest is usually densest. And it was a good deal larger then Goku, who chucked it like a fastball.
And Gokou wasn't lifting that 40 tons at all. He was straining against the 40 tons trying to stay afloat until he goes ssj.
Yeah which is lifting the disperesed wait and holding it in the air with flight, similar to Superman lifting and holding things in the air with his flight, except Superman never has the weight spread out around his body.
Because Gokou has to ride on Nimbus to get there it's around the world?
Around the world was an estimate considering that he went from whatever island the Red Ribbon base to the center of the Earth or whatever. Like I said earlier, it could have been across the country and that's still a CL100+ feat.
He could have been miles or it could be on the other side of the Earth but does it ever really say?
No but it was across several oceans, we know that much.
I ain't searching for any reason Superman can win.
Sure you are, you're using out of character tactics and travel speed, while vastly exaggerating Superman's skill and undercutting Goku's strength and shown fight speed.
He doesn't even need to be more skilled in martial arts when he can just fly into him faster than light and create a smear.
When has he done this? When has he even flown faster then light in the atmosphere?
Though you're just going to day Gokou has faster than light reflexes and would just dodge even though he's never shown them whatsoever.
Superman himself hasn't even shown faster than light reflexes.
I meant it isn't Gokou's own traveling speed.
Yes it is. Speed is the rate of motion, or equivalently the rate of change in position, many times expressed as distance d traveled per unit of time t. Goku's maximum rate of motion just happens to be instant.
Also prove that Gokou has fought as fast as you think he has?
Being able to create multiple SENTIENT (as in once punched it shows him going from a stationary stance to sticking out his tongue) after images of himself during a fight to recreate a illusionary effect.
Moving so fast he appears still to FELLOW SPEEDSTERS (not just average joes, guys like Baata and Jeese, Gohan and Vegeta)
Has Superman done something like this? The only thing I can think of is when creators want to emphasize how fast he's moving and drawing him connecting with multiple blows.
Last time I checked punches don't disintegrate things that engulf them or create explosions.
All explosions are (for the most part), are released kinetic energy and heat. Nothing more, nothing less. How often are the ki beams portrayed as hot?
It's energy no physical.
So? The only difference between and energy burst and a physical burst is the energy burst has heat to it.
there punches since DB yet no place has ever been destroyed from a punch..There is no proof they can even hit that hard.
Are you kidding? Generally whatever area is hit, is completely decimated by the punch. Collateral damage is low because they're focusing on hurting each other and not the Earth.
No Saiyan Saga Vegeta wouldn't hurt SSJ3 Gokou with Galick Gun but it's also not a true planet destroying blast either.
But you just implied it was of planet destroying calibur earlier when you said Goku only blocks and dodges the major attacks.
How about this then, do you think Master Roshi emptying his entire energy reserve into SSJ3 Goku would do him harm?
That puts him at moon level.
Do you think Freeza emptying his entire energy reserve into SSJ3 Goku would do him harm?
That puts him at planet Vegeta level, who's mass is 10x's that of the Earth.
Just because the only thing Buu flattened was the Earth does not even come close to proving Saiyan Saga Vegeta Galick Gun = Kid Buu's energy beam. I mean true they would have done the same thing, but what else is there for Kid Buu's blast to destroy to prove it was much more powerful? Especially when the only planet Buu was focusing on is the Earth?
And can you prove that Freeza didn't use a chain reaction to destroy Vegeta?
Can you prove he does? Can you prove he had to core Namek and this wasn't some sort of sick game to either prove he was still the most powerful in the last seconds or die trying? Freeza is the over-reacting type, after all, that throws huge temper tantrums when things don't go his way. How do you know he didn't intend for the planet to immediatly blow to further torture the Z cast? How do you know he didn't intend on beating Goku to a pulp and have him sitting stranded waiting for the planet/space to finish him?
Vegeta's Galick Gun were pointed at the Earth which would drill through
You know, the Earth is MUCH bigger then the core and Vegeta wasn't exactly in the most logical of moods. It would make more sense that he was aiming to just shatter it with power, as opposed to manipulating Goku in the direct spot of the core using his newly acquired core knowingness powers and convienently blasting him there.
You're trying to tell me that a GL would loose to Gokou?
Yeah.
I don't care if John Stewart is the worst out of him, Hal, Kyle, and Guy any of them would own him even faster than Superman would.
How? Considering the only one of them with a legit win over Superman is, in fact, John Stewart.
Supes has never fought, punched, dodged at light speed. he just punches som random guy or gal miles away then flys at them at light speed, or while he is fighting he punches slow like he always does while flying at lightspeed
Yeah the closest thing you can get is him punching Wonder Woman from the sun to the Earth, you could argue that his fist had light momentum to transfer into her and carry her to Earth, but that's quite a stretch.
Goku stated it was impossible for him to lift 10 tons in base form, and as soon as it was changed to 40 tons all of his limbs were pulled down and he started sinking, and he had to transform immediately to stay afloat.
DBZ characters can only move at their highest speeds for short bursts lasting a few seconds at most.
Your point about Gohan having to track Yamcha and the Saibamen by their ki instead of using his eyes is nullified by the entire android saga.
The androids had no ki, they could only track them visually. They would lose track of them when they move fast in short bursts, but otherwise they can see them.
Normal humans can see DBZ fighters for most of their fights, right up to the end of the manga.
When Goku fought Yakon, he could track his movements by the air currents he created. If they were anywhere near lightspeed, that would be useless as the air can't move close to that speed:
Not to mention that even at the very end of the manga, they still take several minutes just to fly to another location on earth.
DBZ characters aren't even close to lightspeed. Moving faster than the eye can see is a neat trick, but it's hardly in Superman's speed class. Rorouni Kenshin characters, Captain America, Spider-man, and Wolverine do it all the time.
The distance Tao threw the pillar was never stated. Goku's kintoun really isn't that fast either (it was shot down by a guy with a bazooka).
If Superman uses an ability, it means he has it. Most of the DBZ fans' arguments aren't even based on things Goku has done, they're of the form "Character A did such and such and Goku is way stronger than character A was when he did that, so Goku can do it better". At least Superman fans use feats that Superman has actually done.
You have absolutely no way of quantifying DBZ speed, and Superman has so many speed feats (both travelling and reaction) that claiming DBZ characters are faster is pure folly.
Ki blasts in DBZ take many forms, they can have burning, electrical, cutting, acid - like, attacks but mostly they are explosive. Picollo never hit Raditz with a moon - destroying attack, if he did a large chunk of the earth would have been missing when it hit. Furthermore, DBZ characters have demonstrated more resistance to ki attacks than they have against physical attacks.
Surviving on the surface of an exploding planet is far less impressive than taking all of the energy required to destroy a planet point - blank. In the former case you're only taking a small amount while the rest explodes the planet off into space, in the latter you're taking it all directly.
DBZ characters stopped using tactics and actual martial arts and just resorted to kicking, punching, and spamming ki blasts somewhere around the Saiyan saga.
As for Roshi and Krillin, they didn't play three games of janken, they only played one, and started another but Roshi interrupted it by kicking him. And it took one second in total, not "a blink of an eye". Looks like you're the one who hasn't read the manga.
Furthermore, I never said 15, you're lying again. Then again, what can I expect from someone who said that Tao threw a metal beam instead of a stone pillar?
Krillin and Roshi performed 9 actions in 0.2 seconds (kick, dodge, punch, dodge, spit, dodge, punch, spit, dodge), played one game of janken (I'll count that as 4 actions, 3 hand movements with the last one showing their hand, and then reacting to their opponents' hand), then half of another game (2 more actions), then Roshi jumped and kicked Krillin's head (2 more) and landed (1).
Dividing up the first part between them, we get 6 actions/reactions by Roshi in 0.2 seconds. That amounts to a reaction time of 0.03 repeating seconds (around 4.5 times peak human).
Counting the actions of the second part, we get 9 actions/reactions in 0.8 seconds for Roshi (reaction time of 0.088 seconds, around 1.7 times peak human).
Averaging them out, we get 3.1 times peak human reaction time.
Well guess what, looks like I was wrong. Their reaction times for that feat weren't dozens of times peak human, but only 3 - 4 times. Thanks for helping me correct my error.
Also, considering the very small distances they move, they wouldn't have even had to be moving faster than sound to accomplish that.
Krillen didn't say anything about how he couldn't see Piccolo and Freeza fighting, Vegeta has no problem seeing Freeza who outclasses Gokou in speed when he had trouble seeing Gokou, they all see Vegeta fighting 18, they see 19 fighting Gokou, the all see Cell fighting Gokou, Vegeta and Mr. Satan see Kid Buu fighting Gokou, Krillen watched Vegeta and Gohan fight, the whole crowd see Goten and Trunks fighting all out.
Are you sure you're not just thinking of in the anime? Because I don't remember Vegeta saying it in the manga though I'm willing to be proved wrong if somebody can. Also how does him not being bothered by 100g's in ssj form prove he trained in 300?
It wasn't larger than Gokou. It was large sure but it wasn't larger than Gokou.
Except he wasn't lifting it at all. His arms were weighted down and he was falling to the ground. He was flying already and then it wasn't until he turned SSJ did it pose no problem to stay afloat. 40 tons was pulling him down with him trying to resist it.
Out of character tatics maybe but he still has the speed to do it, and I ain't undercutting Gokou's strength. Gokou hasn't shown the strength to replicate any of Superman's higher strength feats at all nor has Gokou shown the speed to do anything Superman has done with his speed. Gokou takes time to travel long distances while Superman can go someplace, get something, and come back in matter of seconds or build something in second yet somehow Superman doesn't have fast reaction times?
Superman was staying right behind Flash who was running faster than light while in the atmosphere of Earth. Can't think of any other times he's went the speed of light on Earth but what is the difference between traveling light speed and space and on Earth? It's never been stated he couldn't use that speed on Earth.
So I guess Nightcrawler is faster than Flash because Nightcrawler can teleport.
And none of them are real speedsters either just because they can fight fast. Get back to me when they've actually shown any kind of super speed that would put them into the league of DC speedsters like Flash, Superman, and Wonder Woman and then being completely speed blitzed or being unable to see somebody. Superman can see Flash maybe not catch him or be as fast but Superman can still see Flash when he's running faster than light.
So Superman being drawn in four different places at once like when he fought Imperiex and was doing different things or with multple hands catching bullets from different directions, or taking away weapons from a whole army without them realizing it isn't going fast and it just drawn for effect but Gokou being in different places means he's extremely fast.
Ki beams or at the least Kamehameha has been potrayed has hot for a while since it disintegrates stuff. Cell wouldn't be killed if it wasn't and Kid Buu has to be disintegrated to die also and nearly every blast did that to him.
No fight has ever created shockwaves or destroyed anything. The surrounding area may get destroyed with blasts and stuff but there punches do nothing but maybe knock somebody through something or into the ground but never destroyed or shook anything with there punches.
Didn't I say Galick Gun was supposedly planet destroying? Because that's what it was stated. And he'd be fine hit by Kamehameha by Roshi at full strength because his energy durability is fine..at least I'd like to think so. But that still doesn't change the fact Gokou has NEVER taken a blast worthy of notice and has either dodged or blocked with one of his own so saying he can take planet destroying attacks is pretty pointless since all of them he has never taken.
I never even said anything about Kid Buu. Kid Buu destroyed the Earth yes but Fat Buu when he fought SSJ3 Gokou has his Kamehameha deflected and when it exploded on the Earth's surface what happened? Not Earth's destruction that's for sure and Fat Buu is a whole lot more powerful than Freeza or Vegeta yet his blast did nothing close to destroying the planet when it didn't drill down as Freeza's blast on Namek did. And in the Bardock movie Planet Vegeta stays for a couple of seconds before exploding after the blast was gone, and lava spews out of the ground, and it's not instantly gone in an instant.
Kyle was doing pretty good asleep against Superman when he was Jokerized. Has Hal fought Superman? And when has John beat Superman? Never really seen John beat Superman...heck Superman really shouldn't beat a GL in general though.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
isn't goku's kameyameya attack magic? i mean, you never see him shoot it with out saying " KAAA MEEEE YAAAAA MEEE YAAAAA!!!!". haha. it's kind of like a magical hymn he must say and then the magical burst of energy comes flying out of his hands. isn't superman vulnerable to magic? haha. I'M JUST KIDDING! superman's counter for this would be to say "HEAT VISION LASER BEAM!!!!" when he shoots his eye laser stuff. that would make his lasers magic to i suppose. haha. anyways, i like both of them alot, but superman wins hands down. goku has to train to increase his powers. superman just becomes more powerfull.. goku likes the moon and well, the moon is just sun rays reflected... superman for sure..
KMC Community Forums
Nov 7th, 2007 02:25 PM
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