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British Heroes
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nmensfinest
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quote:
That ridiculous attempt at sarcasm of yours, nmensfinest, just underlies that there is absolutely nothing to your argument.


Ad Hominem, Logical Fallacy. My sarcasm =! my argument, it's in addition to it, though I will apologize for it.

quote:
There is no limited definition here, jsut the definition that is ALWAYS used in books, films and tv- and certainly the definition exanda was using, that everyone else will understand he was using, and what any reasonable person would use.


Read this thread again Ush. I'm the one who originally brought up the word, and it was obvious what I was saying, unless you really think that I view Sylar as some kind of Hero. I'm free to use the word in any applicable way I choose Ush, you can't call me out on that, and given that Exanda was replying to me, it was up to him to fit his definition accordingly to mine (otherwise his reply would naturally be nonparallel to what I was saying), not the other way around, and the same goes for you.

As for you still claiming that your definition wasn't limited, well you're still wrong Ush. How often the word is used in that way, or how reasonable the people are that use the word in such a way doesn't change the ambiguity of the word. I used the word differently, my usage was perfectly valid, so you're really not in a position to label me as the one in the wrong here Ush. It's up to the people responding to fit their definitions in accordance with whoever makes the original claim in cases of ambiguity, otherwise replies would constantly be nonparallel.

quote:
You just trying to rely on an irrelevant description from the dictionary


Irrelevant? How so? It was perfectly relevant, given that it was how I was actually using the word.

quote:
without any form of context or analysis is pretty ridiculous.


"The main character in a drama or other literary work."

Pretty straightforward and self explanatory Ush. Analysis or context really isn't necessary.

quote:
The rest of what you say- more feeble insults and all- is just a waste of everyone's time. All I can do is point you back to what I already said.


I apologize.

quote:
Keep using terms like 'Mr. Moderator'- which is simple trolling- ansd you will be warned once more. On the road to a ban here, and I doubt anyone will be sorry.


Again, I apologize. But that doesn't mean that my argument isn't solid in this case, because it is. Your's isn't, and pointing that out doesn't warrant a ban.

Old Post Nov 6th, 2007 06:17 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Strangelove
nmensfinest, you're wrong. Sylar is not the protagonist in any way.


He is, in the sense of being a primary character featured in the show. I think you'll find I linked the page to dictionary.com where it lists such a definition for the word. Meaning I'm right, not wrong; that would be yourself and Ush.

quote:
He is an antagonist and a member of an ensemble.


He's both an antagonist and protagonist, depending on how you view the definitions.

quote:
There is no single protagonist.


Did I say there was?

Old Post Nov 6th, 2007 06:21 PM
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Strangelove
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I'm sorry, but you're still wrong. The definition you linked to said the main character in a work. In an ensemble cast, there is no protagonist. There is only the ensemble.

Sylar is the protagonist in his own storyline, no other. He's the antagonist in every one otherwise.


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Old Post Nov 6th, 2007 06:44 PM
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nmensfinest
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quote:
I'm sorry, but you're still wrong.


I'm sorry, but I'm still not, as can clearly be seen where I literally dismantle every one of your and Ush's above points.

quote:
The definition you linked to said the main character in a work.


Failing to see your point. The definition applies for the word when in the singular. Plural - protagonists, would come to mean the main characters. The usage of the word "the" neither implies nor indicates the absence of another protagonist.

quote:
In an ensemble cast, there is no protagonist.


This doesn't even make sense. The protagonist doesn't exist within the cast itself, but the characters they play.

quote:
There is only the ensemble.


Clearly what you were trying to speak of is the ensemble of characters. Well, you're still wrong, a protagonist can always exist as long as there are those that stand out.

quote:
Sylar is the protagonist in his own storyline, no other.


This contradicts what you were just saying.

His storyline involves an ensemble of characters, which you just stated to not contain a protagonist.

quote:
He's the antagonist in every one otherwise.


As I've said, he's both, depending on the definition.

Old Post Nov 6th, 2007 07:01 PM
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Strangelove
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In an ensemble, there is no single protagonist or antagonist, all-encompassing. But since there are multiple storylines, each has its own protagonist and antagonist. For Bennet, the Company is his antagonist. For Hiro, it's Takezo, and so on. Sylar is an antagonist in almost every storyline but his own.

You and I seem to be arguing over semantics, and you're obviously as stubborn as a rock. So I'm done.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 04:56 AM
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nmensfinest
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quote:
In an ensemble, there is no single protagonist or antagonist, all-encompassing.


I seriously have no clue what you're trying to say here, but you're wrong, there can be a single protagonist or antagonist, depending on whether or not there is a main character or Hero or Villain, and how much focus is put onto them. You... do know what an ensemble is, right? In this context, it's simply a collective group of characters, but that doesn't mean that one or a few may not stand out from the rest. You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

quote:
But since there are multiple storylines, each has its own protagonist and antagonist. For Bennet, the Company is his antagonist. For Hiro, it's Takezo, and so on. Sylar is an antagonist in almost every storyline but his own.


You're still contradicting yourself. An single storyline involves an ensemble of characters.

quote:
You and I seem to be arguing over semantics, and you're obviously as stubborn as a rock. So I'm done.


Right, that's why you're done, it's not because you keep on contradicting yourself and can't seem to make sense, it's because I'm as stubborn as a rock. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 11:20 AM
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exanda kane
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If ever there was an advocate for broadening definitions, it would be me, but I'm afraid saing Sylar is a protagonist is going too far; he is the main antagonist of the piece, not a passive villain in the slightest, but he is, as Ushgarak mentioned, the foil to the Heroes.

The main narrative in Season One is to Save The World and Sylar, while not aware of this for the majority of the story arc, actively provides antagonism against this.

Of course, popularity of the character of Sylar leads some to think of him as more than just an antagonist. The writers are obviously conscious of this, have beefed up the character, giving him longevitity by leaving him in shades of, well, Grey, with his own search for self discovery and a love interest for good measure. You could argue that he has become the anti-hero of Season 2, as so far, although considering the events of Out of Time, he will provide antagonism to Peter and Hiro's Save The World malarkey.

As I said, I understand where you are coming, but your attitude isn't helping your point.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 01:02 PM
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Strangelove
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by nmensfinest
Right, that's why you're done, it's not because you keep on contradicting yourself and can't seem to make sense, it's because I'm as stubborn as a rock. roll eyes (sarcastic)
No, you're just an idiot who can't understand what I'm saying.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 05:29 PM
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Bloody hell


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 08:30 PM
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nmensfinest
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Believe me Strangelover, if anyone's not understanding what you're saying, it's most likely a fault of your's rather than a fault of their's (which it is in this case). You babble on about an ensemble and constantly contradict yourself, and fail to address me when I point this out to you. But yeah, sure thing, I'm the idiot. roll eyes (sarcastic) The idiot who can debate circles around you; hmm, I wonder what that's supposed to make you... At least Ush knew when to quit replying when he realised that he was in a losing disposition, you clearly just don't know when to shut up.

Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 09:49 PM
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Exanda, I can appreciate the fact that you make an infinite amount of more sense than Strange Man does, but you appear to have misunderstood what I meant when I labelled Sylar a protagonist.

"The main character in a drama or other literary work."

^That's the definition I was using, I in no way was saying that he was some form of Hero.

Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 09:54 PM
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Mairuzu
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Peter rocks my socks smile


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2007 10:15 PM
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Strangelove
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by nmensfinest
Believe me Strangelover, if anyone's not understanding what you're saying, it's most likely a fault of your's rather than a fault of their's (which it is in this case). You babble on about an ensemble and constantly contradict yourself, and fail to address me when I point this out to you. But yeah, sure thing, I'm the idiot. roll eyes (sarcastic) The idiot who can debate circles around you; hmm, I wonder what that's supposed to make you... At least Ush knew when to quit replying when he realised that he was in a losing disposition, you clearly just don't know when to shut up.
Sorgo?


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2007 05:07 AM
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nmensfinest
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...Who now?

Old Post Nov 8th, 2007 10:48 AM
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Strangelove
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by nmensfinest
...Who now?
Oh don't even pretend it's not you, Sorgy boy.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2007 11:54 PM
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nmensfinest
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Are you coming on to me?

Old Post Nov 9th, 2007 12:00 AM
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REXXXX
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That is most definitely suspicious behavior, attacking Ush for no apparent reason other than being utterly and completely right. Not to mention the debating terms that a certain someone used constantly.

In any case, Sylar is not the protagonist. He's not even an anti-hero.


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Old Post Nov 9th, 2007 12:43 AM
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nmensfinest
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"The main character in a drama or other literary work."

Is this definition wrong? No? Ok then. So, that would make me right, and Ush wrong. Thanks for playing though.

And attacking Ush for no apparent reason other than him being "right?" I think you'll again find that you're wrong, there was a very valid reason - he told me to get my definitions straight, when I was quite clearly using the word in a proper way. His holier than thou attitude was annoying, to say the least, which is why I "attacked" him. He appears to have even somewhat accepted that he was originally wrong, and changed his stance from claiming that I was using an incorrect definition of the word to claiming that I was using an obscure definition, so I really don't see how you can accuse him of being right here.

As for you and Dr Strange accusing me of being Sorgo, all I can say is that you're both very, very wrong, and either way, I don't really care. I'm not Sorgo, ergo we won't be sharing the same IP address, and I'm not going to say that I'm Sorgo, because I'm not. Either way, you lack sufficient enough evidence to label me Sorgo, so until you do (which will be never, because I am not Sorgo) please kindly don't bring it up again.

Old Post Nov 9th, 2007 11:06 AM
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Strangelove
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A) You're wrong.
B) You're Sorgo. Oh my, you don't have the same I.P.? Gosh! I guess I was wrong! Man, if only I was stupid enough to believe that there weren't proxies!! Gee golly!


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Old Post Nov 9th, 2007 11:57 AM
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nmensfinest
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Nice Strawman!

I wasn't indicating or implying that because of those two facts, I'm definitely not Sorgo. I honestly don't care what you think. What I was saying is that because of those two mentioned facts, you can't prove that I am Sorgo, ergo you should stop calling me Sorgo, and more importantly, Rex cannot ban me. That's what I was saying.

Old Post Nov 9th, 2007 01:11 PM
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