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Free Energy
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
free energy is a possiblity but the powers that be wont let this happen


I believe that it is possible to tap into "free-energy" because we have a Sun shitting it's rays all over out faces, every single day. Why is this not the object of our energy obsessions? There's also the possibility of things like "zero-point" energy which I do think exists. There is the potential to tap into the Nuclear Force...but that would probably require a gigantic leap in our understanding of quantum physics before we can do that (I see that as being a possibility in 30 years time, though.)

And, I agree: the powers that be. It is very stupid that we do not have these giant oil companies investing in alternative energy sources in a serious manner: they could "capitalize" on newer, better sources of energy. It has to start there. In my Emergin and Converging technologies class, we studied, intensively, the paradigm shifts that must occur with new technologies and those technologies in the market: it's never the customer that creates the technologies and pushes them: it's a organization. If they introduce it, it's up to the consumer to push it through. But it FIRST has to be available for the consumer to consume. This requires a giant calculated "risk" to be taken by the organization pushing their new technology. This means that someone like Exxon Mobile has to push an alternative energy source, and thereby, act as the catalyst for a paradigm market shift in energy consumption (away from fossil fuels towards something like bio-diesel or hydrogen fuel cells.)


bla bla bla. You guys get it.


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2011 09:55 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I believe that it is possible to tap into "free-energy" because we have a Sun shitting it's rays all over out faces, every single day. Why is this not the object of our energy obsessions? There's also the possibility of things like "zero-point" energy which I do think exists. There is the potential to tap into the Nuclear Force...but that would probably require a gigantic leap in our understanding of quantum physics before we can do that (I see that as being a possibility in 30 years time, though.)

And, I agree: the powers that be. It is very stupid that we do not have these giant oil companies investing in alternative energy sources in a serious manner: they could "capitalize" on newer, better sources of energy. It has to start there. In my Emergin and Converging technologies class, we studied, intensively, the paradigm shifts that must occur with new technologies and those technologies in the market: it's never the customer that creates the technologies and pushes them: it's a organization. If they introduce it, it's up to the consumer to push it through. But it FIRST has to be available for the consumer to consume. This requires a giant calculated "risk" to be taken by the organization pushing their new technology. This means that someone like Exxon Mobile has to push an alternative energy source, and thereby, act as the catalyst for a paradigm market shift in energy consumption (away from fossil fuels towards something like bio-diesel or hydrogen fuel cells.)


bla bla bla. You guys get it.


It's all about technology cost...Once the easy to access to oil runs out and the hard to access tar fields start to become more expensive than the "alternative" then the companies that dominate oil based energy will shift...People don't give a shit what powers their car on the way to work....So long as it's the cheapest and/or the most easily available.

Sounds like common sense but that's it....People, as a general rule in their everyday lives, don't give a shit about the enviroment if it comes between them and cheap/easy access to the energy they need.
Like the vid that someone posted....George Carlin.."Enviromentalists don't give a shit about the planet...Not in the absract they dont....You know what they're interested in?...A clean place to live...their own habitat....They're worried that some time in the future they might be personally inconvenienced...Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me...Besides...there's nothing wrong with the planet...the planet is fine....The People...are ****ed...Difference...

And on and on it goes...If completely free energy becomes available...Something that doesn't involve billions or more in investment, research and development...And something that the energy companies don't have to send along a wire to your home then please post it...Otherwise it's not "free"energy...As much as Katsu would love to think that something as easy as solar panels are the answer....As it stand...You would have to have solar panels working in your home for something like 30 years to have them break even in terms of their investment...And this is in countries where solar energy is constant and reliable...IE, not countries where it buckets down with rain for 3/4 of the year and the solar energy gained isn't enough to boil a kettle once a day.

I've seen it all in this thread...Engine's that run on "water" despite the fact that the energy needed to split water into hydrogen and oxygen is greater than that gained from burning the hydrogen that comes from splitting the water in the 1st place....If the energy required to make hydrogen and oxygen from water was less than was needed to combine them into water then THERE WOULD BE NO WATER ON THE PLANET as this is the way chemical reactions work....

And yes...My body is currently converting ethanol into energy and water vapour plus other stuff....So sue me c**t f**ks


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Old Post Feb 16th, 2011 04:15 AM
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Robtard
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Look forward to more diesel (compression-ignition engines) and diesel-electric hybrids in the future. Diesels provide more power drop for drop (ie better mileage) and they can be run from both readily available fossil and bio-fuels.

Just wait until those 1-billion+ Chinamen start trading in their bicycles for cars, fuel prices will ****ing skyrocket even more. You'll be happy to get 65+mpg in a car that can fit more than you and a midget.


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Old Post Feb 16th, 2011 11:10 PM
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Jack Daniels
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my electric bill is to high..lol


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Old Post Feb 19th, 2011 06:07 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Look forward to more diesel (compression-ignition engines) and diesel-electric hybrids in the future. Diesels provide more power drop for drop (ie better mileage) and they can be run from both readily available fossil and bio-fuels.

Just wait until those 1-billion+ Chinamen start trading in their bicycles for cars, fuel prices will ****ing skyrocket even more. You'll be happy to get 65+mpg in a car that can fit more than you and a midget.


I saw this "sedan" type vehicle that got 100+ MPG on discovery from that weird Italian engineer. I was like, "WTF?" Of course, it's not mass produced. erm


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Old Post Feb 20th, 2011 08:39 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I saw this "sedan" type vehicle that got 100+ MPG on discovery from that weird Italian engineer. I was like, "WTF?" Of course, it's not mass produced. erm


What type of performance did it have though? You could have a car with a carburetor and 1940's technology that gets 75mpg, but you wouldn't want to drive it due to its naught-to-60 of 5 minutes.

On Top Gear a few years back, Jeremy Clarkson did 800 miles (from London to Edinburgh and back, iirc) in a Audi A8 diesel on one tank, or about 20 us gallons. Granted, he drove very carefully, never speeding etc. But that's 40+mpg in a large and heavy luxury vehicle that can perform rather well if you require.

What I'm getting at, the technology is there; that's not the problem with our cars averaging a shitty 20mpg in the US. We can have good/great gas mileage and not have to completely sacrifice comfort.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2011 07:27 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I saw this "sedan" type vehicle that got 100+ MPG on discovery from that weird Italian engineer. I was like, "WTF?" Of course, it's not mass produced. erm


The Honda Insight gets 83.1mpg and it's mass produced...A lot of others are in the high 60s

In the UK market anyway.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2011 10:27 PM
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Katsu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I believe that it is possible to tap into "free-energy" because we have a Sun shitting it's rays all over out faces, every single day. Why is this not the object of our energy obsessions? There's also the possibility of things like "zero-point" energy which I do think exists. There is the potential to tap into the Nuclear Force...but that would probably require a gigantic leap in our understanding of quantum physics before we can do that (I see that as being a possibility in 30 years time, though.)

And, I agree: the powers that be. It is very stupid that we do not have these giant oil companies investing in alternative energy sources in a serious manner: they could "capitalize" on newer, better sources of energy. It has to start there. In my Emergin and Converging technologies class, we studied, intensively, the paradigm shifts that must occur with new technologies and those technologies in the market: it's never the customer that creates the technologies and pushes them: it's a organization. If they introduce it, it's up to the consumer to push it through. But it FIRST has to be available for the consumer to consume. This requires a giant calculated "risk" to be taken by the organization pushing their new technology. This means that someone like Exxon Mobile has to push an alternative energy source, and thereby, act as the catalyst for a paradigm market shift in energy consumption (away from fossil fuels towards something like bio-diesel or hydrogen fuel cells.)


bla bla bla. You guys get it.


Great post, and your reasoning is solid. Machiavelli has a nice quote on the introducing of new things.

"It ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. "

You can bet your ass that the status quo is against researching and investing in alternative energies because it would mean the end of their control over mankind;s energy needs, as in fossil fuels.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 10:43 AM
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Katsu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
As it stand...You would have to have solar panels working in your home for something like 30 years to have them break even in terms of their investment..


As it stands right, but lo and behold, cars were a luxury item once upon a time. Now, everyone has them, several even.

All it takes is time for alternative energies to become cheap and efficient. Patience, Jaden. It will definitely happen someday.

If the status quo hadn't been suppressing this knowledge since 1900, we would probably have it available today cheaply. But, they are suppressing it, and as a result, the research is still in its infancy. This is changing rapidly as we speak though, for the internet is the last bastion of free information.


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Rather than truth as the authority.

Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 10:48 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
The Honda Insight gets 83.1mpg and it's mass produced...A lot of others are in the high 60s

In the UK market anyway.


I'd like to see you fit marginally comfortably in an Insight with even 3 or your 7 midget-sex-slaves.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 10:54 PM
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Darth Piggott
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Katsu
As it stands right, but lo and behold, cars were a luxury item once upon a time. Now, everyone has them, several even.

All it takes is time for alternative energies to become cheap and efficient. Patience, Jaden. It will definitely happen someday.

If the status quo hadn't been suppressing this knowledge since 1900, we would probably have it available today cheaply. But, they are suppressing it, and as a result, the research is still in its infancy. This is changing rapidly as we speak though, for the internet is the last bastion of free information.


Who are the elites, like is it President Obama and Queen Elizabeth? I do think that governments are procrastinating with trying to find alternates for oil. I mean I learned about that crap in elementary school, I figured by now we would have phased out gasoline. I agree that major changes won't take place until the big corporations invest in it, which can be risky so I wouldn't want to invest billions of dollars on something if I didn't expect a profit.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2011 01:48 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Katsu
Great post, and your reasoning is solid. Machiavelli has a nice quote on the introducing of new things.

"It ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. "

You can bet your ass that the status quo is against researching and investing in alternative energies because it would mean the end of their control over mankind;s energy needs, as in fossil fuels.


Very appropriate quote, sir. thumb up


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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 12:12 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Katsu
As it stands right, but lo and behold, cars were a luxury item once upon a time. Now, everyone has them, several even.

All it takes is time for alternative energies to become cheap and efficient. Patience, Jaden. It will definitely happen someday.

.


Which is absolutely not what you've been stating throughout this entire thread. I'm not arguing that technology for delivering energy wont become cheaper. It wont ever be free though simply because the infrastructure costs money to manufacture and maintain in working order.

The economics of low cost photovoltaic cells just now are only cheaper than using fossil fuels in areas of high levels of sunlight and high costs of grid electricity...California and Japan are currently the only 2 places where it works out cheaper per unit of electricity to install solar panels. This is called grid parity.

Now...Couple the economics of that with the simple economics of supply and demand for purified Silicon (which is also in exponentially increasing demand in the computer industry) and the cost of Silicon has gone up dramatically in the last 6 or 7 years. The only saving grace is that Silicon composes of almost a 1/4 of the entire earth's crust and so should be relatively abundant. Only issue is that refining it to pure Silicon from its various compounds takes huge amounts of energy itself as it needs to be heated to over 3400oF.

And there's A LOT more to consider than just those basic fundamentals of economics and energy production.


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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 10:35 PM
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Deano
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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 10:58 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bEy...player_embedded

good vid


Good in theory but how many people do you know who have enough space to give to the amount of land he's using for his old propane tanks and solar panels.

In other words...How would you go about implementing that in, for example, Manhattan island?

How many tanks would you need to store enough Hydrogen for everyone's energy needs? How much resources would it take to manufacture all those reinforced pressurised tanks? How much energy to make them?

There are tons of examples of houses that actually put electricity onto the grid because they have a net production of electricity rather than consumption but hardly any of them are viable on a large scale.


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Old Post Mar 6th, 2011 12:41 AM
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Deano
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in time im sure there will be ways to sort this out

im talking hundreds of years away though


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Old Post Mar 6th, 2011 04:21 PM
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Robtard
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Neat, but not applicable on a wide scale in real world practices:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1104694/

http://www.garbagewarrior.com/trailer.html

In "Garbage Warrior," Reynolds describes one of his new homes, called the Phoenix: "There's nothing coming into this house, no power lines, no gas lines, no sewage lines coming out, no water lines coming in, no energy being used ... We're sitting on 6,000 gallons of water, growing food, sewage internalized, 70 degrees year-round ... What these kind of houses are doing is taking every aspect of your life and putting it into your own hands ... A family of four could totally survive here without having to go to the store.


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Old Post Mar 14th, 2011 05:56 PM
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Fortitude
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Hey, there's this thing, it's called the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Thought you'd want to know.

Old Post Jun 16th, 2011 01:06 PM
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