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Classic NES
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Wait, so the CBS shot records the turn at the same distance upon impact?

Even though they are so apart?


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 12:48 AM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES
Wait, so the CBS shot records the turn at the same distance upon impact?

Even though they are so apart?


from the last footage you posted its impossible to tell perspective as to how far away or near to the camera view point the plane is...and from the other 2 shots its impossible to tell distance from the towers or the camera the plane is when it is turning

well i presume through mathematics determining the speed of the plane and time it takes to hit the towers and working back to a common point in time that you could tell but alas maths isn't my forte and i'm not knowlegable on the size of new york so cant determine distance from the building on the left to the tower (of your bottom footage)...


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 12:53 AM
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Classic NES
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Wasn't talking about speed, i was reffering to the distance the plane comes into view. Also, I have the wrong vid, that's not the CBS replay.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 12:56 AM
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jaden101
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actually re examining the bottom footage you sort of can tell the distance between the plane and the camera decreases as it gets closer to the tower as the size of the plane increases...hence it must be turning


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 12:56 AM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES
Wasn't talking about speed, i was reffering to the distance the plane comes into view. Also, I have the wrong vid, that's not the CBS replay.


if you're working it out to determine the point in the sky where the plane is in each shot then you need to know the speed...the time it impacts the towers...and work back using an equal time frame for each piece of footage


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 12:57 AM
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Classic NES
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Okay, my bad I put the wrong vid for comparison. This is the CBS replay vid:


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:00 AM
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Mandrag Ganon
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That vid doesn't even show the whole thing.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:01 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
if you're working it out to determine the point in the sky where the plane is in each shot then you need to know the speed...the time it impacts the towers...and work back using an equal time frame for each piece of footage
You missed my point, but I got the wrong vid anyway.

Compare the one I just posted to Al Qaida's vid.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:01 AM
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Classic NES
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Here we go


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:04 AM
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Classic NES
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I just want to clarify that the vid that I was using before was the MSNBC vid. I thought it was the CBS replay.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:05 AM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES
Okay, my bad I put the wrong vid for comparison. This is the CBS replay vid:



the vantage point of that is considerably further to the right and is covering a different area of sky....you dont see how long the plane is turning in on either of the other 2 pieces of footage but on the side on vantage point...as i stated...it doesn't come from the fae left side of the screen...hence it was most definitely turning in from considerably far out the side it impacted...the other 2 pieces simply dont pick up the plane early enough to tell and they are from further to the left than the CBS footage (one more so than the other and one on ground level...the other not)

when i say on the 2 pieces of footage taken from behind the tower...(3 if you count your last piece) you cant tell how far away the plane if from the tower because the plane is essentially coming toward the camera at a far greater speed than it is travelling from right to left on the screen

the footage taken from the side means the plane is travelling toward the tower in what appears to be a straight trajectory because you cant tell easily if its moving toward the camera

same thing applies when you watch formula 1 or indy car racing when the camera is zoomed in down a long straight...the car doesn't appear to be travelling toward the camera at any great speed even though it is


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:07 AM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES



Here we go


the altitudes of the planes in the top 2 are identical...the angle of approach appears different because one camera is considerably closer to the tower and considerably further to the left

like i stated...the movement forward toward the camera and sideways as its turning appear different only because of the camera position

not to mention that bottom piece of footage shows an arrow at the far left when the plane isn't even there...attempting to mislead the viewer


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:11 AM
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Mandrag Ganon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
the altitudes of the planes in the top 2 are identical...the angle of approach appears different because one camera is considerably closer to the tower and considerably further to the left

like i stated...the movement forward toward the camera and sideways as its turning appear different only because of the camera position

not to mention that bottom piece of footage shows an arrow at the far left when the plane isn't even there...attempting to mislead the viewer


Well said.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:15 AM
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Classic NES
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Location: The sewers of the Big City!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
the altitudes of the planes in the top 2 are identical...the angle of approach appears different because one camera is considerably closer to the tower and considerably further to the left



How does that make the plane come from a completely different side? The Al Qaida vid is on a complete different approach than the CBS shot.

Also, the CBS dive bomber still contradicts the Tecmac shot and the Al Qaida one.


quote:


not to mention that bottom piece of footage shows an arrow at the far left when the plane isn't even there...attempting to mislead the viewer


Sure if your cynical, it simply shows you where the plane will appear since the video is compressed.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Jan 10th, 2008 at 01:18 AM

Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:16 AM
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Mandrag Ganon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES
Sure if your cynical, it simply shows you where the plane will appear since the video is compressed.


There is no plane on the extreme left of the bottom video, I have watched that video countless times since this whole debate began, It's just not there. Which means that the plane turned while it was obscured by the buildings.


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Last edited by Mandrag Ganon on Jan 10th, 2008 at 01:21 AM

Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:18 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES






Sigh, the arrow is simply a marker to show you where the plane is in general. The video is compressed So it's generally hard to make out.

Now back to the point, please explain how this vid and the CBS replay add up.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:22 AM
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Classic NES
Balloooooooooooooon

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Location: The sewers of the Big City!

All the videos have to add up not just the top two.

Also, the approach for the top vids do not add up man



They only show similar altitude because your lining them up since they are side by side. The distance between the towers are evident in thos two shots.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Jan 10th, 2008 at 01:30 AM

Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:25 AM
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Mandrag Ganon
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From the time of 0:00 to 0:14 there is no plane to be seen. When point 0:14 begins you see the plane coming from behind the buildings on the far left. Where did the plane come from you ask? Easy: It turned behind those buildings.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:27 AM
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Classic NES
Balloooooooooooooon

Gender: Male
Location: The sewers of the Big City!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LORD JLRTENJAC
From the time of 0:00 to 0:14 there is no plane to be seen. When point 0:14 begins you see the plane coming from behind the buildings on the far left. Where did the plane come from you ask? Easy: It turned behind those buildings.


Yes, you pointed that earlier and I accpeted it. Now it's time for you to explain why it contradicts the CBS shot and this time the camera's a not from opposite sides.


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:32 AM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Classic NES
How does that make the plane come from a completely different side?




Sure if your cynical, it simply shows you where the plane will appear since the video is compressed.


well if your shooting a video from a different vantage point then it depends on your line of site...i've attached a crude ms paint drawing..the curved blue line being a hypothetical flight path that is similar to the plane...the two dots at the lower end are the vantage points given on the camera...although they may have been further away in relation to the distance the plane started turning....none of the footage show it...the one on the left is the view obviously from across the river

it shows how to one camera you can see the plane on the left hand side of the building...and from another from the right hand side of the building...even if they are both behind the building in relation to the plane

and no...its not a matter of being cynical in the last piece of footage...its a matter of the plane not being where the arrow is pointing...on either of the pieces of footage from that angle

Attachment: wtc.jpg
This has been downloaded 135 time(s).


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2008 01:33 AM
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