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Comic Book Mythbuster
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

The barrier in and of itself didn't depower him, but it cut him off from his source of energy so while he was trapped by it, it would diminish steadily.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2015 06:16 PM
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One-Punch
B-Class Hero

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Z-City

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its called a retcon bro.

Nick flat out told that the sonic shark is the same as before, hence "originally".

So, its the same sonic shark which drained Surfer. Don't like it? Complain to the writer.

Galactus' barrier never depowered him to begin with. So him getting a power boost after escaping is is asinine. This is the official retcon of him getting his power back from the sonic shark.


No it's not a retcon, bro.

You're simply taking the word "originally" way too literally. We know for a fact the first sonic shark exploded along with the energies it drained. Nick Fury's sonic shark is the original model with the same abilities, it wasn't literally the same missile. It was the military that designed the Sonic Shark missile, so obviously they can manufacture another one in case Surfer went crazy.

And if Surfer did supposedly drain back his energies, why did he make no mention of feeling more powerful?


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Old Post Aug 28th, 2015 01:32 PM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Asgard

In the context of that scene, the word originally means the first time it was used on Surfer. Not that it's the exact same missile.

I don't really know what difference that makes however as I haven't been keeping up with this latest argument.


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Old Post Aug 28th, 2015 11:49 PM
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One-Punch
B-Class Hero

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Z-City

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In the context of that scene, the word originally means the first time it was used on Surfer. Not that it's the exact same missile.

I don't really know what difference that makes however as I haven't been keeping up with this latest argument.

Exactly. thumb up

Based on his misreading, Abhi is trying to claim Fury's missile is the exact same missile, and that it contained Surfer's stolen energy. But they're not the exact same missile because the first Sonic Shark that drained Surfer exploded and was destroyed.

And when Surfer does disable Fury's missile via draining it, he made no mention of feeling more powerful, or getting his power back either.

His response to this is "it's a retcon bro, just accept it"

lol


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2015 03:11 AM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

That was a good feat for Ben too. I calculated it.


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2015 08:20 PM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The barrier in and of itself didn't depower him, but it cut him off from his source of energy so while he was trapped by it, it would diminish steadily.

It didn't. I've never seen a proof of the barrier cutting him off from his power source.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by One-Punch
No it's not a retcon, bro.

You're simply taking the word "originally" way too literally. We know for a fact the first sonic shark exploded along with the energies it drained. Nick Fury's sonic shark is the original model with the same abilities, it wasn't literally the same missile. It was the military that designed the Sonic Shark missile, so obviously they can manufacture another one in case Surfer went crazy.

And if Surfer did supposedly drain back his energies, why did he make no mention of feeling more powerful?

Of course it is.

Yes, it was. Hence, fury explicitly stating that the missile "originally" absorbed his power.

Get mad and cry more. Nitpicking "originally" wouldn't make it. Prove there was a second sonic shark missile.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In the context of that scene, the word originally means the first time it was used on Surfer. Not that it's the exact same missile.

I don't really know what difference that makes however as I haven't been keeping up with this latest argument.

laughing out loud

The writer goes out of his way to mention this is the same sonic shark and even mentions FF 72 when he has Fury say that it was used originally to drain surfer.

But somehow that goes down just because in the original story it got explodey...

Its not like the writer retconned it using Fury's words that it was the same missile which was used in FF 72.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2015 10:11 AM
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StiltmanFTW
CBvF

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I think you're taking it way too literally, but whatever.

What are you trying to accomplish, btw? You don't care about Surfer, so there has to be a specific reason.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2015 11:29 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I think you're taking it way too literally, but whatever.

What are you trying to accomplish, btw? You don't care about Surfer, so there has to be a specific reason.

Surfer fans try to handwave everything between FF 72 to SS v3 1 saying surfer was depowered the whole time.

Not only is that total asinine but completely untrue as no writer after SS v1 wrote surfer as depowered.

Like Fraction having surfer bound to Earth and getting weaker the farther he traveled from Earth.

Nobody cares about that. This is just official retcon of how Surfer got his power back.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2015 01:40 PM
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One-Punch
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Gender: Unspecified
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
It didn't. I've never seen a proof of the barrier cutting him off from his power source.
Of course it is.

Yes, it was. Hence, fury explicitly stating that the missile "originally" absorbed his power.

Get mad and cry more. Nitpicking "originally" wouldn't make it. Prove there was a second sonic shark missile.


laughing out loud

The writer goes out of his way to mention this is the same sonic shark and even mentions FF 72 when he has Fury say that it was used originally to drain surfer.

But somehow that goes down just because in the original story it got explodey...

Its not like the writer retconned it using Fury's words that it was the same missile which was used in FF 72.



You have some pretty glaring holes in your myth bust.

- The first sonic shark exploded, hence they're not the exact same missile.
- After Surfer drains Fury's missile, he makes no mention of feeling more powerful.
- Your entire argument hangs on loosely interpreting the word "originally" which everyone (except you) agrees wasn't literal.

Until you fill these holes, no one's going to take your myth bust seriously.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2015 07:08 PM
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One Big Mob
Dead

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Rising up

laughing out loud


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 02:41 AM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

On the other hand, if he's right, it's quite a feat for Reed to build a missile that can explode and then re-create itself.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 02:43 AM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

BTW, Surfer's power is drained when he tries to get past the barrier:

http://i.imgur.com/WlZYW4L.jpg


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 02:46 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by One-Punch
You have some pretty glaring holes in your myth bust.

- The first sonic shark exploded, hence they're not the exact same missile.
- After Surfer drains Fury's missile, he makes no mention of feeling more powerful.
- Your entire argument hangs on loosely interpreting the word "originally" which everyone (except you) agrees wasn't literal.

Until you fill these holes, no one's going to take your myth bust seriously.

Not after the retcon, it didn't.

He absorbed the whole power of the missile and his lost power. It matters little if he doesn't monologs about it.

I couldn't care less about what others think.

Now prove there were two sonic sharks as per FF 72.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
On the other hand, if he's right, it's quite a feat for Reed to build a missile that can explode and then re-create itself.

Or it got retconned that the missile didn't explode. Hence Originally.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
BTW, Surfer's power is drained when he tries to get past the barrier:

http://i.imgur.com/WlZYW4L.jpg


And the power returned to his.. What's your point?


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 04:00 AM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

That's not a retcon. It would be only be one if it was shown that the missile somehow survived, or they showed the scene again and it didn't explode.

If I show you a gun and say "This is a Thompson submachine gun, the same gun used by Al Capone", does that mean it's literally the exact same gun that Al Capone used? Or just the same type of gun?


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 05:47 AM
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One-Punch
B-Class Hero

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Z-City

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's not a retcon. It would be only be one if it was shown that the missile somehow survived, or they showed the scene again and it didn't explode.

If I show you a gun and say "This is a Thompson submachine gun, the same gun used by Al Capone", does that mean it's literally the exact same gun that Al Capone used? Or just the same type of gun?

thumb up

Great analogy.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 12:00 PM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's not a retcon. It would be only be one if it was shown that the missile somehow survived, or they showed the scene again and it didn't explode.

If I show you a gun and say "This is a Thompson submachine gun, the same gun used by Al Capone", does that mean it's literally the exact same gun that Al Capone used? Or just the same type of gun?

Of course it is. The missile was specified as the one which Originally drained surfer and surfer instantly recognized it as the one. Even the issue number was given for someone like you or vince trying to doubt it.

You should prove it was a different missile. And FF 72 doesn't counts.

Occam's razor and all that shit. Still waiting for the scan where surfer was depowered by the barrier.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by One-Punch
thumb up

Great analogy.

Not really.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 05:44 PM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

So, the actual comic where we see the missile explode doesn't count... right.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2015 06:16 PM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So, the actual comic where we see the missile explode doesn't count... right.

Retconned bro. It's like someone using Thor fighting Thanosi as an example to reason against Infinity Abyss.

Retcons don't work that way.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2015 06:52 AM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Any proof it was a retcon other than your narrow interpretation of the dialogue? If the missile hadn't been deflected and exploded, the Surfer would have been killed. Obviously he wasn't.

Furthermore, it's hardly inconceivable Reed would have built another one, it was one of his best-designed weapons and tons of enemies use similar cosmic energies that it would be useful against. In fact, previously we saw a very similar device Reed designed that drained some of the Power Cosmic from Doctor Doom (when he stole it from the Surfer). The Sonic Shark seemed to be an evolution of that design. Reed keeps copies and blueprints of all of his useful inventions around.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2015 03:58 AM
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One-Punch
B-Class Hero

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Z-City

Yeah, not to mention after draining Fury's missile Surfer made no comment about feeling more powerful.

You would think getting your power back after being almost totally drained would be a pretty big deal. There would be at least some sort of statement or narration alluding to it, but there's nothing.

If Surfer did get back his powers, the writer would've made it clear.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2015 01:26 PM
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