Mary died in Ephesus, Matthew died far away as well. Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish people scattered. They wouldn't be in that tomb even if it were Jesus's family tomb.
Tis unfair... The evidence isn't right, objectively. Even without the Bible it is wrong, the people died elsewhere and the Jerusalem area was abandoned. That is why the evidence is strongly against this being the tomb of anyone after the destruction of Jerusalem, putting Matthew and both Marys out of the picture. No evidence suggests otherwise. No one has been able to refute that argument. Heck, even if it were the disciple Matthew it would be inconsistent with Jewish burial tradition.
It doesn't seem that way. If you did, you didn't understand it. To this end, I would invite you not to post in this thread anymore. This thread was open for at least a week before the program aired. In that time all the posts were speculation. The program has been rebroadcast several times on a number of basic and higher tier cable channels, however. If you can't avail yourself of one of the repeat showings, then you don't need to be commenting on the very specific topic of this thread.
And Adam may say you, like the biblical scholar he mentioned from the 'critical look", are approaching it with a closed mind. But I disagree. It's clear from your useless comments that you didn't even approach the documentary at all. But I agree you didn't even try because you're close minded.
However, since you are an expert on 1st century jewish burial traditions, why don't you tell us what those traditions entail. Since you haven't seen the program, or it went over your head, feel free to tell us what you know on the topic so we can all inform you that you agree with more of the conclusions reached in the program than you are aware.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Last edited by Devil King on Mar 8th, 2007 at 01:01 AM
Gender: Male Location: Impacting nations and generations
I'm only asking because I didn't bother to watch, but I read on some site debunking the documentary, that as stated Jesus was a common name back then (said in the documentary) and that in the tomb-yard there were an additional 23 or so tombs with the name Jesus on them anyway.
Was this mentioned at all on the documentary?
Not saying it's fact, just that I read it and was curious if this was stated.
Also, the DNA evidence was used to prove that the inhabitants of the tombs were related (kind of a given, really) but how was the DNA used to prove that the tombs were acutally of Jesus of Nazareth and his mother Marry and father Joseph and another Marry and a Matthew?
How is it other than some math game that them being together proves anything?
It's like saying that because you found a tomb of people that DNA says were related and they had the names John, Jaqueline, and John Jr. that you MUST have found the Kennedy's tombs.
No specific number of other tombs was mentioned, but it was repeatedly asserted that Jesus was a common name. However, a large portion of the show was dedicated to the grouping of relevant names. The statistics involved in finding all of these names, familial relations, etc in one place, is pretty compelling.
There is no known base sample of DNA for Jesus. So, no, they didn't say that it was a DNA match for Jesus. They tested the family relationships, based on DNA, for the tombs. This established who was and was not genetically related, and in what manner they were related. So it might have been a given that they were related, but the nature of that relationship was defined and helps to narrow the "math game", as you put it, used to calculate the chances.
Statistics is not a math game. It's based on numbers and probability. Which is a bit more complex than saying a human body just floated into heaven.
Judging from your questions, and the fact that you've answered them, I think you know it's a bit more complex than that. DNA, names, location, time period, etc all went into this. However, you know as well as the rest of us, that there were no solid conclusions reached, which is exactly what everyone thought would be the case when they started discussing this.
But, beyond all that.
I'd like to hear from the christian members of this board. Given that this was difinitively proven to be the tomb of Jesus, what would that mean to your identity as a christian?
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Do you feel this is really the last resting place of Jesus? I mean, I'm still open to whatever else is introduce now or later. However, this is one of the issues that I and people had during the docu-drama:
In an interview, Mr. Jacobovici was asked why the filmmakers did not conduct DNA testing on the other ossuaries to determine whether the one inscribed Judah, son of Jesus was genetically related to either the Jesus or Mary Magdalene boxes; or whether the Jesus remains were actually the offspring of Mary. "We're not scientists. At the end of the day we cant wait till every ossuary is tested for DNA," he said. "We took the story that far. At some point you have to say, I've done my job as a journalist."
There is also the James Ossuary which he claims is part of the tomb. The James Ossuary's authenticity is in question, and one of its past owners has been charged with fraud in connection to the artifact.
To me there are some holes in this whole deal. Remenber, Jacobovici did put a disclaimer leaving the viewer to ponder and question the project. I think that's the best disclaimer ever made in a docu-drama.
Jacobovici is so ignorant is not even funny, Jesus in Hebrew means Yehoshua translated in English Joshua. Everybody during that time of jesus and before these names are very common: Joseph, Mary, Joshua( Yehoshua which is Jesus in Hebrew) he has no creditability as a archeologist's what so ever.
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
To which Ted in the one hour critical mentions why waste the money on paying actors and making documentary a drama when that money could have been used to do the testing more properly.
It's still part of the tomb. It should be included.
Gender: Male Location: Impacting nations and generations
It means nothing really.
It was a theory, based on statistical probability and incomplete DNA evidence.
A theory, one that wasn't even conclusive.
Yeah, a mary and a joseph and a jesus and a matthew were burried together. Yeah, some were family, and some weren't.
If I found a tomb that had a tom, dick, harry, and jane, what would it matter?
I've still seen 100 kids baptized in the Holy Spirit at once and speak in tounges, and seen them healed of asthma and diabetes on the spot. (that was all at one youth event.)
A prophet came to our church 3 weeks ago and told me that things of my family line, the generational curses that they dealt with and had impacted me, wouldn't be passed on any farther and wouldn't effect my children.
Funny that me and my wife had been talking that very sunday morning about my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother having bi-polar depression, and my grandmother on my father's side have paranoid scyzophrenia and all of them using alcohol or drugs and how I had dealt with a depression for a few months as a teenager and been on all kinds of drugs, isn't it?
Funny that we should be talking about that and my wife saying that she hopes our kids (when we have them) don't carry on those traits.
And even funnier that pastor Marc Cargill from Oregon, a man I'd never met before IN MY LIFE, was given that EXACT word by the Holy Spirit to tell me, isn't it?
No poorly executed theory can compete in my mind or my heart with the very REAL power and presence of God.
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Mar 6th, 2007 10:59 PM
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