__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Verily, tis true! I fear that my fighting days are long behind me. Scattered like sands to the winds of time and almost as forgotten.
I being but a STREET wondering vagabond, have no place in the heavens, meddling in the affairs of gods, myths, and creatures most foul.
Perhaps I'll one day lift my sword once more and take arms against my enemy, for every true warrior must fall a warriors noble death.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Lulz at jin. We don't seem to like street tourneys much, but if I had my way we'd have more of them (sans prep, too, since the current "low meta" tourney is anything but because of the outlandish prep strategies).
Our match didn't matter by that point, since the semis were already set. If you'll notice, we farted into the posting box and called it a writeup.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
"Hardest/easiest tournament" uses the following criteria: If an average debater from today were to enter each tourney, how hard/easy would it be for them to win? It does take into account era, so it is assumed that no scans would be allowed in the early tournaments (I-III or IV), even for our hypothetical modern participant.
Hardest Tournament:
3 - Iron Man Team Tournament (V) (Winner: Blair Wind)
Why: It was the tournament where the "old guard" vets seemed to meet the newest debaters of the current generation. There were precious few easy-outs, even in a 16 man tourney. Scan-heavy posts also made the scene for the first time, making it a rough transition for some.
2 - Herald Team Tournament (VI) (Winners: Leo and Kahn)
Why: Very little prep put an emphasis on character debating more than any tourney in the modern era, and partner tournaments are always a shade tougher because you have to coordinate plans with our partner and also make sure both partners are dedicated enough to win.
1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.
2 - Khellendros vs. Scoobless (Tourney II) http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...threadid=331132
...this was Khell's closest and best chance at a tourney win. He was initially up in the poll only to be overtaken late.
1 - Scoob/Digi vs. Blair/DC (Tourney VIII) http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t442032.html
...sorry to make myself #1 here, but it really was. Blair and Scoob had their tourney wins already, but DC and I had a lot riding on it. With the judges locked 2-2, and both plans at feverishly ludicrous levels, both teams threw out last-second arguments to try to swing the last judge to their side. And a week after the tourney, Scoob and I happened upon a scan that may have countered their main point against our prep.
The Lists: Entry #3
Easiest Tourney (same criteria as Hardest)
Please note: "easiest" does not mean "worst" as there is a lot to be said for all of these tournaments listed below. This is simply an assessment of the difficulty in winning each one.
3 - Evangel's 2nd Multi-Level Tourney (VII)
Why: We weren't always so able to field multiple tourneys at one time, and Scoobless was able to use his experience in past tourneys to best a comparatively weak field (some good debaters, but many were very new to tourneys), because it took place at the same time as another tourney (VIII), which had already siphoned away many of KMC's elite at the time.
2 - Low Meta Team Amalgam (X)
Why: Ill's current tourney boasts excellent debaters and powerful strategies, but has suffered from people dropping out. Regardless of the competition level, when showing up assures a team of a spot in the semis, the odds are more in a team's favor than most tourneys.
1 - KMC's First Multi-Level Tourney (I)
Why: Not a testament to the participants or tourney itself, which pioneered the idea of tourneys here on KMC, but it's just an undeniable fact that the quality of tournaments has improved drastically. The first tournament was groping in the dark with strategies and rules, so it's to be commended for setting the base for future tourneys, but one cannot look at it today and not see how the knowledge of the forums has increased monumentally.
The Lists: Entry #4
Best Character Never to Win (thanks to newjak for compiling this list)
3) Spider-man:
With only one low-meta tourney completed you'd think Spiderman's blend of speed, strength, agility, and pre-cog that he could be combined with anyone with combat skill, weapons, or abilities to become an instant beast. Yet despite three to four exact Spiderman clones it was a combination with Venom that came out on top. Leaving Spiderman and his fans to wonder how.
2) Ironman:
The man in the Iron suit has had two completed tournies using him as the cut off point. Yet he has never be involved in a tourney win as well. Which some would think as odd considering the fact that he has possibly the tops or close to tops of each power allowed in those tourney. Not only that but his prep, and resourcefulness has almost guaranteed him that a scan exists that allows him to thrive in any situation, but sadly all these advantages still haven't translated to tourney victories. Leaving Ironman to drink away his tourney woes.
1) Juggernaut:
The Juggernaut has been drafted and competed in every herald level tourney. Why because he brings a unique characteristic that a bunch of people find appealing especially when mixing with other people. For one at the levels he has been drafted it should basically be said that he possess unlimited durability, stamina, and the ability to survive any environment. Along with his known ability to get to physically strong enough to crush the likes of Thor. Mixed with his connection to a large magical energy source and you have a pick that seemingly gives any possible team, or fusion character a huge advantage. The inability to be defeated through direct means. Yet no one has ever been able to take advantage of these things to produce a tourney championship for poor little ol' Cain Marko.
The Lists: Entry #5
Most Useful Characters in Tourney History
3 - Thor
Why: A herald+ tourney can't and hasn't happened without the son of Odin being drafted. And in each appearance he has performed admirably. One tourney win, and two other finals appearances. His combination of raw power and versatility is matches by few at any level.
2 - Hank Pym (Yellowjacket)
Why: This is probably a surprising entry, but there's a reason. Scoobless' clever tactic of being able to grow an infinite amount with Sasquatch and Moonstone (the only thing keeping Hank from growing as large as he wants is gravity, which is counter-acted with flight) was facilitated by Hank, and is the main reason he not only won but coasted to his most recent tourney win (IX).
1 - Silver Surfer
Why: Two tourney wins, three if you include his "Keeper" incarnation, at least one other finals appearance, and good showings in every tournament he's been in. Kid's a beast. Top tier energy wielder, speed, power, versatility, matter manipulation. There's not much to dislike here.
The Lists: Entry #6
Best Tourney Newcomer
3 - darthgoober (Tourney IX)
Why: This would seem odd because he's the only person on this list not to place in his tourney. But in just two short matches, goober gained the respect and fear of his opponents, and even currently he doesn't have too many matches to his credit but is considered among the elite of KMC's tourney regulars.
2 - DigiMark007 (Tourney III)
Why: I gained the notoriety in this tournament as both intelligent and respectful, and it is one of the main reasons I was nominated for moderator. My debating skills, at the time, were a bit under the elite (despite a 4th-place finish) but it gained me recognition of a different kind that has led to my influence as a mod on the forums.
1 - Blair Wind
Why: In his first tourney he entered one of the toughest fields in tourney history, came out on top. 'nuf said.
Smurph is a really good competitor, don't get me wrong, but he has a ways to go before "best tourney newcomer" will apply. In our match, he pulled out a lot of stops to beat us, and we were content to lose while we planned for the semis.
Ah, thanks. Same difference, but I'll change it in the post there.
Yeah, leo/Kahn had a tough road the entire time in that tourney, and you guys put up a good fight. That's part of the reason it's on the hardest tourney list.
Actually though, DC was the only person in that match with prior tourney experience. Leo's been around since near the beginning but that was his first tourney too.
Still, I found the concept of their win a little funny. It had nothing to do with them having more powerful characters than us (which they did), but rather their strategy.
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
Most Creative Participant: Blair Wind
Why: He routinely sets the high-water mark for inventive strategies, is always a threat to win, and while some may complain that he finds "loopholes," others simply see it as finding what is the most powerful legal strategy in any given tournament.
Most Diligent Participant (Research): Darkcrawler
Why: In Ill's tourney, we were preparing a strategy but there was one very obscure scan that could have ruined the entire plan. I told leo, "If it were anyone else but DC, I wouldn't mind. But the fact that he's our opponent, and that scan exists, scares me." I wouldn't have had the same concern with anyone else on KMC.
Best In-Thread Debater: Scoobless
Why: Debating is highly subjective, so I can't honestly compare the merits of his debating with others. But his results speak for themselves. Four tourney wins, one runner-up, and (unofficially, since I've never kept track) the best win/loss ratio in KMC's history (including only people with multiple tourneys). He also, whether he knows it or not, is a blunt but effective instructor. I had writeup duties for our tournament together, but his suggestions, changes, and additions to our plans and my words were surprisingly enlightening and helped make me the debater I am today.
...
And newjak's right about Juggernaut. It just sort of dawned on me. I don't even like him much, but I've thought of combos with him that should dominate. But I always shy away from him because...well, for one I tend to pride versatility over raw power...but also because he seems to be tourney poison despite his potential.
Criteria: "best" can mean one of two things. One, that it was functional and an intelligent step for tourneys to take. Or two, that it was revolutionary and inventive, taking tourneys in new directions.
3 - Judges
Why: Without judges, apathy and controversy were the norm. With them, subjectivity still exists, but with knowledgeable and thorough judging, each match has a more legitimate decision than our earliest tourneys. No one person is responsible for the advent of judging, but Dizzle/ScarletSpider's tourney was the first to implement it.
2 - Non-comic characters
Why: Some love it, others hate it. Some non-comic characters are surprising and powerful, others are too obscure to make an impact on matches. But it's undeniable that the 2-3 tourneys that have allowed non-comic characters have been made more interesting for it. From Jedi Knights and TV warriors, to book and anime characters, it's always a fun curveball. Again, it wasn't my idea but my first tourney as host (V) was the first to try it.
1 - Point-based drafting (Tourney XI. Evangel)
Why: Why not? No other tournament system could give you Dr. Strange and Flash on one team, and 15 powerless females on another (and Empath). Options including Galactus, Batman, and everything in between, as well as "purchases" like prep time, knowledge of the opponent, and various uber-powers make participants think about their plan like never before. The diversity of strategies, and the bevy of options, make this format the most wide-open of any tournament in KMC's history. No system is perfect, but Evangel's point-based tourney system gets points for originality and fun.
Not only that but for some reason he always seems to get taken early in any tourney for some reason.
I also believe it was you but I remember someone once saying something like this,
"Juggernaut is a great pick, and I'm sure had we been able to draft someone more than once Juggernaut would be floating around a few Amalgams."
I think the problem with Juggernaut is while he provides probably the single most impressive advantage in any tourney, the inability to be defeated directly. His lack of versatility in many other areas, like speed, high end energy powers, flight, teleportation, mental powers just makes it hard to for him to intertwine well.
In fact I think that might be his biggest problem, is that people tend to try and use him as a support character. I think if someone is going to to use him right then they are gonna have to use him as the focal point and build up from his weaknesses and strengths not using him to plug one hole in another's.
Herald+ is too powerful to have an amalgam tournament anymore because people would literally put together indestructible abstract-style beings. But I remember mere days after my first tourney drafts were in the books and battles had started, I thought: "Hmmm. Juggs + a telepath (negates the weakness) + a GL (mobility and versatility) = unbeatable." Hell, pick a telepathic resistant like Alan Scott and you could blow the 3rd pick on something else. It's blindingly obvious, but for some reason even THAT probably wouldn't work for god knows why.
NJ/Blair's problem when they had him was that he was separate, so he had mobility and tp protection, but only as long as they could convince judges that their other characters wouldn't be beaten.
KMC Community Forums
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Mar 9th, 2008 06:30 PM
