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Respect Raziel
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Pyron_Knight
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Respect Raziel

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Raziel is created in his current state through a combination of his destiny and the Elder God



Through the Elder God, Raziel can not die. His body may be destroyed but his soul is eternal and will simply find a way back into the Material Realm.

Raziel also overcomes all of his vampiric weaknesses.

Raziel vs. Kain from Legacy of Kain: Defiance



It's pretty even but Raziel has some unfair advantages. Still, Kain and Raziel are pretty much equal there.

Raziel also possesses strength enough to move massive several ton blocks of stone with his claws.

In the end, I put Raziel in the LOK Power Hierarchy:

1. End of Defiance Kain w/Purifed Soul Reaver/The Elder God
2. Kain/Raziel
3. Hylden Lord
4. Janos
5. Vorador

Old Post Mar 16th, 2008 10:00 PM
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Burning thought
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after defiance Kain should be one imo, then Elder God at 2 with Kain, then Raziel at 3 with the Hylden lord at 3 as well, since Hylden lord does have some powers that can greatly harm raziel

also both their endurances are often overlooked, not everyone takes into account both Kain and Raziel can take eachothers hits with ease sometimes, each of their arms being able to carry tonnes and being sharp claws


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Old Post Mar 16th, 2008 11:09 PM
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Pyron_Knight
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We don't know how strong Kain is post-Defiance.
Raziel was equal to Kain when they both had one part of the Reaver.
Raziel also beat the Hylden Lord.


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Old Post Mar 16th, 2008 11:18 PM
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Burning thought
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we do know, we know he regains all the souls and powers of his sons, Raziel and his powers and is complete as the Scion, we know roughly his power is incredible and conceptual which is beyond the Elder God really

not quite, Kain has always been superior to Raziel, you can see that in the soul reaver 2 intro, how Kain throws Raziel around like a doll, his power is overall far far greater than Raziel, however Raziel and Kain are likely equel physical strength

Raziel did not beat the Hylden lord, he was blasted by Hylden lord and destroyed, made to go back into the immaterial realm if i remember correctly


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Old Post Mar 16th, 2008 11:45 PM
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Pyron_Knight
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quote:
we do know, we know he regains all the souls and powers of his sons, Raziel and his powers and is complete as the Scion, we know roughly his power is incredible and conceptual which is beyond the Elder God really


He had all that power when he fought the Elder God and at most he drew with it.

quote:
Raziel did not beat the Hylden lord, he was blasted by Hylden lord and destroyed, made to go back into the immaterial realm if i remember correctly


He could have killed it if he had wanted to. But he didn't because he wanted to spare Janos.


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Old Post Mar 16th, 2008 11:57 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by IdiotGod
He had all that power when he fought the Elder God and at most he drew with it.



He could have killed it if he had wanted to. But he didn't because he wanted to spare Janos.


The Elder God he did not draw....how can you say that? first the thing didnt touch kain, and second, it was slashed to pieces and had to burrow away, it was defeated, not killed since how to kill the thing is unkown, and thats if it can, but i wouldnt say Kain drew with EG at all, kain won outright, just didnt kill it

no he couldnt once Hylden Lord actually gained control to fight, obviously if its being struggled with, with Janos inside stopping it from fighting then Raziel could beat it but Hylden lord actually fighting is superior to Raziel in many ways and destroyed him with its dark magic.


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2008 12:02 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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quote:
The Elder God he did not draw....how can you say that? first the thing didnt touch kain, and second, it was slashed to pieces and had to burrow away, it was defeated, not killed since how to kill the thing is unkown, and thats if it can, but i wouldnt say Kain drew with EG at all, kain won outright, just didnt kill it


Kain ran away just like the Elder God did. The Citadel was collapsing which the EG had done.
Kain fled from the EG and the EG fled from Kain.
Draw.

quote:
no he couldnt once Hylden Lord actually gained control to fight, obviously if its being struggled with, with Janos inside stopping it from fighting then Raziel could beat it but Hylden lord actually fighting is superior to Raziel in many ways and destroyed him with its dark magic.


The Hylden Lord did gain control of Janos. That's the whole fight. Even with control he lost and could've been killed by Raziel but then he cheapshotted an unprepared Raziel when Raz refused to kill Janos.
He lost there as he lost to Kain in Blood Omen 1 and 2 and no goddam way is Raziel with the Spirit Reaver weaker than Blood Omen 1 and 2 Kain.


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2008 12:40 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by IdiotGod
Kain ran away just like the Elder God did. The Citadel was collapsing which the EG had done.
Kain fled from the EG and the EG fled from Kain.
Draw.



The Hylden Lord did gain control of Janos. That's the whole fight. Even with control he lost and could've been killed by Raziel but then he cheapshotted an unprepared Raziel when Raz refused to kill Janos.
He lost there as he lost to Kain in Blood Omen 1 and 2 and no goddam way is Raziel with the Spirit Reaver weaker than Blood Omen 1 and 2 Kain.


The EG did not have to flee tho, Kain had to otherwise he would of been buried which was impossible considering Nosgoths history but still, EG flee because of kains power in defeating him one on one, EG was still fleeing from kains power, Kain was simply fleeing because of the environment, but EG could neither touch or harm Kain and kain simply mocked EG as he left "youd best burrow deep"

Exacltey, the only time Raziel had a chance to defeat the lord was when he was suppressed by Janos, if Hylden had carried on and never been suprressed the same would happen, he outclasses Raziel terribly in magical power, range and more, especially in Janos body where he also has flight, it only took one final blast of green lighting to take out Raziel.

Raziel with spirit reaver is weaker than BO 1 kain, BO 2 is weakest one but BO 1 kain would destroy Raziel


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2008 12:47 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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quote:
Raziel with spirit reaver is weaker than BO 1 kain,


That's a really bad joke.
I mean, really.
Raziel is stronger and has way more durability and power than Kain at this point.
Shit he can vaporize Kain with one blast from the Water Glyph as Kain dies instantly if submerged in water. Only his Elder form showed the ability to dissolve into bats to avoid it.
Kain also has no Tk at this point which mens Raz can hold him at his mercy before Kain can cast one spell or move at all.


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2008 01:38 AM
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Burning thought
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stronger yes, more powerful? not a chance, first Kain has half his major spells, Spirit death would send Raziel straight back to the Elder God, he can use Mist to escape melee attacks still and he can call up a shield to protect again all and any attacks in the same amount of time it would take Raziel to TK him or use a water glyph, and its unlikely a water glyph would one shot kain in any of his times, it would cause a lot of damage but i highly doubt it would one shot


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2008 01:38 PM
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Pyron_Knight
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With the Reaver blade, Raziel was invincible.


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2008 07:41 AM
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Nozdormu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
With the Reaver blade, Raziel was invincible.



Invincible according to him, yes..

Raziel is an awesome character, I must say.. His appearance is one of the most awesome looking in the fictional world, imo..


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2008 11:17 PM
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Pyron_Knight
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Well, it makes sense he was invincible... Time itself was keeping him that way because he was the key to one of the most important events in that world's history. It was kinda like how time itself almost made Raziel kill Kain. Time hand the Reaver had to keep Raziel unstoppable until he reached the part where he would be drawn into the blade.


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2008 11:31 PM
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Nozdormu
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Quotes from characters should always be taken with a pinch of salt. Of course, I'm thinking in Vs. debates, and not character discussion in general. May so be that he is invincible in the LoK universe, but I would never consider it a legit argument in a versus against a character from another universe wink


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2008 11:34 PM
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MadMel
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the fact was that the reaver cured all of raziels wounds nanoseconds after he recieved him...there is no way to permanently harm him with that weapon in his hands erm


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2008 12:27 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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Except once Raziel beats his enemies he'll be sucked into the blade and so...it kinda a double loss. lol


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2008 12:31 AM
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Raziel is insanely strong. perhaps one of the strongest characters in games vs, certainly for his size:



At 3:30, Raziel quite easily topples over a 700 ton+ obelisk.

Also note the quotes of the people playing, "Golden Gauntlets lifting rocks", "Raziel does not even need gauntlets" wink

The math was not done by me, but by Bloodrain, he knows his stuff it would seem so I think hes quite a credible source:

quote:

BloodRain wrote on Oct 11th, 2010 02:03 PM:
that just killed all my previous calcs for Raz.

Funny enough the volume is just over the LoZ's black pillar, which is 650 tons. o.o did not see this coming. That obelisk is about 700 tons.

Black Pillar (LoZ) < Black Obelisk (LoK)

Fk, he's 7x stronger then we thought .__.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 03:26 PM
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CosmicComet
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I always recalled that pillar, and thought it would weigh no more than 70 tons, now that I can see just how thick it actually was compared to my memory, it doesn't surprise me that its 700.

Also, how did he get only 650 tons for LoZ's granite pillar when Paste got 1000 tons? I'm guessing Bloodrain went with a lower estimate for Link's height than Paste did to scale the pillar's height.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 03:31 PM
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Not sure entirely. You would have to ask him. But I only just remembered that obelisk and all this time I have been using mere blocks for Raziels strength.

Raziel does this easily and with no strain audiable or otherwise. Makes this feat the best so far for his strength. This also enhances Kains strength as Kain>>>Raziel, but I dont really need to mension it in Kains thread.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 03:34 PM
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CosmicComet
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Kain's strength is >>> Raziel's as of that video's timeline, but they are equivalent by the time of Defiance.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 03:35 PM
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