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Originally posted by h1a8
Superman vs. Thor

Many people say that Thor would win.

Here are some of their reasons:

1. Thor has magic and Superman is vulnerable to magic.
2. Thor is a god and Superman is not.
3. Thor has greater fighting skills than Superman.

In this post we’ll see that reasons (1) and (2) are faulty and that reason (3) is false.

Now let's examine them.

Reason 1

This is the most famous reason. The fact Superman is vulnerable to magic doesn’t imply that Superman is vulnerable to all magic. D.C. comic defines magic or magical energy as electromagnetic waves with a certain range of wavelength, as opposed to the more familiar meaning. Superman’s weakness is in the strength of his biomatrix. Its permeability to these wavelengths makes Superman vulnerable to certain radiations. In particular, the magical energy’s electromagnetic or extra-dimensional signature disrupts Superman’s force field. Superman’s vulnerability to magic also varies on the special effect of the magic. This implies that the magic in question depends on its incantation. For instance, if Superman were to get hit by lightning brought about from magical energy then the effect would be the same as him getting hit with regular lightning. This is because the magical energy was used to make real lightning. If the lightning that was made doesn’t have the exact properties of real lightning, then, by definition, it is not lightning but magical energy (a counterfeit). Thor’s hammer Mjolnir, does possess magical energy, and its incantation is the following:

1. Only the worthy may possess Mjolnir.
2. Mjolnir will return to the exact place where it was thrown.
3. Power of simulated flight.
4. Power to summon real thunder, lightning, wind, and rain.
5. Mjolnir is (only by conventional means) indestructible.
6. Power to open extra-dimensional portals.

Note: None of these poses as a weakness for Superman.

Reason 2

This reason is obviously fallacious. As long as Thor is a god and not God (with the capital G) then there is no logical reason why he can’t be defeated by a non-god. A god is defined as: A male being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people. So most super-heroes can possibly be gods (even Superman). The belief, "It is impossible for a non god to defeat a god.", is just plain foolishness.


Reason 3

This reason is logically valid if only it were true. All Marvel trading cards with stats in addition to the Marvel Universe encyclopedias rank Thor’s fighting ability as a 4 (Experienced Fighter), with 7 being the highest. “What?” Thor has thousands of years of fighting experience and yet he isn’t even a master of a single form of combat. Mere mortals such as Captain America and Wolverine outrank Thor’s fighting ability by 3 whole levels. On the other hand, Superman can move faster than the eye can blink. There is no amount of fighting skill that can combat this (not even a fighting rank of 7). One can't dodge or block that is which is too fast for him to react to. Only the JEDI can do this through their use of the Force. Thor has never fought anyone of Superman's speed and reflexes before (Although in the fight between Thor and Gladiator, for some strange reason, Gladiator did not fight at his optimal speed). Also, Superman has received rigorous training in the art of warfare by Mongul himself. Thus by adding in super speed, super reflexes, and vast powers, Superman is a much greater fighter than Thor.

More on Thor and Superman

Superman is extremely much stronger than Thor. Post-crisis (not Pre-crisis) Superman’s maximum bench-press strength is listed as 250,000 tons (when using his telekinetic abilities) while Thor’s maximum press strength is around 100 tons. This is a 2,500% difference. Superman’s maximum speed is 60,000 mph (flight – atmosphere), 300,000,000 mph (flight – space, about half the speed of light), and 30,000 mph (running) while Thor’s maximum speed is on average 200mph (running), 25,000 mph (flight -- atmosphere and space), and infinite (inter-dimensional travel through portals formed by Mjolnir).
Also, Thor is nowhere near invulnerable as Superman is. Thor’s flesh and bone density is about 3 times that of human tissue. His flesh is a consistency 5-7 times stronger than regular Kevlar. This fact is estimated from the facts: (1) Hulk’s skin is a consistency 8-10 times stronger than kevlar and (2) Hulk is always a level above Thor in the durability stat. Now imagine Thor, with this durability level, getting hit by a 225lb. baseball-sized cannonball traveling at 30 times faster than a rifle’s bullet and that has nearly no give or loss of velocity at impact. This is about 30,000 times the momentum of the rifle’s bullet. Superman will literally punch a gapping hole in the Asgardian. Thus there is no way that Thor can withstand Superman’s might.
But on the other hand, direct physical hits by Mjolnir could possibly affect Superman. But this actually depends on whether the magical energy in Mjolnir coincides with D.C.’s definition and if Superman manages to get hit at all. For the sake of argument, let’s assume Mjolnir does have the correct type of magical energy in it and in which, for some strange reason, Superman happens to get hit by it. But after this first hit Superman will now know of Mjolnir properties, and due to Superman’s super speed and reflexes, it would then be nearly impossible for Thor to hit him with it again.
Conclusion

Since those popular three reasons are not valid and the ones I gave are, then hence, Superman wins easily. Also, IMHO, I believe that Superman could possibly defeat the entire Avenger's team. This is because of the fact that Count Nefaria could and the fact that Superman is much stronger, faster (including reflexes), has more powers, and has greater fighting skills than Count Nefaria.




Sources

All statistics on Superman are from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman and http://www.starnet-database.com/dba...n/superman.html

Facts on Thor come from an official Marvel site: http://marveldirectory.com
(Look up Thor, Asgardian, Beta Ray Bill, and Quicksilver under Individuals in the index).magic real lightning

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Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Fantastic argument H1a8!

I agree with a lot of the stuff you said - I like the stuff you said about his bio-matrix being vulnerable to some radiations - that explains about K-Nite too - which also gives out radiation of strange wavelengths.

I don't think the fight would be as easy to pull off as you suggest though.

Supes definitely does have the POTENTIAL to whupp Thor, if he went all out - but he never does. It would be out of character.

Plus, Thor is much older with more experience than Supes. AND his magical powers aren't limited to summoning weather - what about the Godforce he can summon? If Supes tried to stand there and take it like he does with most things, he'd certainly be very injured or even killed.

Both are good characters - both stand for might and right. But though I love Supes and believe he has the power to pull it off if he tried, I think he'd find it tough going...

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Originally posted by Wynndar





-Mjolnir has another power that wasnt mentioned...it can absorb any form of energy...thus making it extremely dangerous to someone like Superman, who unlike Hulk or Hercules, doesnt have truly dense tissue and invulnerability....If Thor absorbs Superman's aura, he will be left just as vulnerable as when his aura was exhausted and Doomsday killed him

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Originally posted by Wynndar


-Dont argue about speed, u know very well Superman can move so fast because DC characters r written without the slightest grasp on science.

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Originally posted by juggernaut74
Well Wynndar is right it can absorb certain forms of energy just not all forms like he stated.

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Originally posted by juggernaut74
That brings us back to the radioactive spider thing I believe.

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Originally posted by Wynndar
exactly, when spiderman was created they tried to encorparate scientific based powers rather than pure fantasy...although modern superman has made an attempt to make the source of his powers more scientific by explaining aura's, wavelengths, telekinises, etc...originally there was no more explanation than: he is empowered by a yellow sun...while spiderman's powers were based on genetic mutation, recombination, a true scientific concept. Considering that genetic traits can and are regularly taken from one organism and then placed into another, i dont see what the problem is.