Hey, during the Han Solo versus Captain Kirk thread Robtard convinced me Kirk would pwn Solo.
Besides, all you are doing is bitching and moaning about the conditions of the thread, you haven't lifted a finger to prove me wrong.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
The problem with that, Scythe, is that you get people who feel they can argue for their chosen character simply because they get ideas.
Like in the Comic Vs forum, the Storm Vs Dr. Doom thread went on for about 200 pages, despite the obvious, sensible and logical conclusion being Dr. Doom. That's when freedom of speech is abused, instead of just saying to the Storm fans, "No, you're quite obviously wrong, end of thread." and closing it, they allow them a podium.
Like when they let people who deny the holocaust have talks at universities, why? They're wrong.
Others have, and like I explained to you in the GDF, you're just being ignorant.
That was an offshoot, thread achieved more than it should've that does happen.
Not suppose to prove you wrong, I'm suppose to decide who I think would win, describe how and there ya have it. Nowhere do the rules state there can only be one victor, or you have to change everyone's opinions, also no need for negativity.
No, I am the only one who can actually accept that Batman can be defeated by a normal man, albeit a normal man with unbelievable training.
Probably not an "easy" shot from such a distance, but Batman has to get close enough to Swagger to subdue him, yes? So let's say Swagger opens fire as Batman is 1000 yards out. 900 yards. 800 yards. 700 yards. The Bat is closing. 600, then 500 yards. 400 yards, 300 yards......Eventually Batman is going to be close enough to Swagger where the report of the rifle will no longer warn Batman when a shot has been fired, Scythe raised a good point earlier on how if Swagger shoots a mile away, on how Batman will hear the report of the shot and be able to drop and roll, avoid the fire.
But he is also ignoring the laws of physics, the bullet arrives at the target BEFORE the sound of the shot is heard. A bullet travels much faster than the speed of sound. So really the Bat will have NO warning of the shots approaching him. And the closer he gets, the easier of a target he becomes.
And who has Batman fought in the movies that is close to Swagger as far as being a perfectly trained killing machine? with his hands, knives, rifle, pistol, machine gun?
Sure, if you just point and spray. Swagger isn't that type of shooter, he doesnt just let loose like Tony Montana.
Whats this got to do with the durability of the Batmobiles tires?
I haven't been convinced YET......YET. look it up.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Negativity? All I said was that you were complaining alot.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Exactly, and that's not ringing any alarm bells to you?
Dodging, dodging, dodging.
For one thing, he doesn't have to get close on foot. Secondly, he doesn't need to hear the shots, Swagger however, has to make them. Nobody here is silly enough to believe he can with Batman being a constant moving target, in a forest.
So it's obviously not an easy shot, therefore, not as easy as you once made it out to be.
Al Ghul is easily as trained.
Right back at you; what has Swagger done, who has he fought, that suggests he can do all this? Movies, remember. Nothing, shot some stationary targets, a few moving ones who didn't know he was there.
In all the scenarios, Batman doesn't want to get shot, so he usually makes sure he isn't shot. From what I remember, we've also seen Batman's cape taking on solid shielding properties.
That you dodged my original question. Answer my question; considering who made it, the technology available and the geniuses behind it, do you not think that it's very possible they would have considered that someone might try shooting the tires, and done something about that?
Yes or no? I'm not saying the Batmobile has them, I'm asking if all things considered, you're willing to write that possibility off.
Yeah, you did change to that after you clearly said something that is opposite in meaning.
"I said I CAN'T be convinced, which would mean I cannot, definitely. What I meant was, I can. You know, the opposite to that? Just hasn't happened yet.".
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
For the record, RJ, you've made clear that you cannot be convinced, so as far as I'm concerned, the debate is done.
You can weasel about how you meant something totally opposite, but I don't really buy that, and I find it pointless to continue this further. It's an agree to disagree situation.
That either people do not want to admit that a regular man who wears no tights and has no super powers cannot defeat Batman, even though he has the training to take on small armies (the ones in the movie, mind you)
Or that they know shit about Swagger and what he is capable of, let alone the weaponry he would use.
From a far distance, like a mile, with the bullet having a six to seven second flight time, no, I suppose it wouldn't be easy. Not just because it's Batman, just because of all the variables that come into play. But as I said, the closer he gets, the easier the shot becomes, and yes, Batman apprehends his prey up close and personal, unless I in fact saw a different version of the Batman movies than you did.
If Swagger can make mile long shots in his sleep, how easy would a 100 yard or 50 yard shot be?
Yes? and? He isn't nearly as thoroughly trained as Swagger, meaning Swagger is trained in all types of weaponry including hand to hand combat.
Is he more proficiently trained than Swagger in sword or Ninja? Definitely. Is he as well trained as Swagger in firearms? Nope.
If you need an answer to this, you really didn't see shooter. I ask you again, did you watch it in it's entirety? Answer and I will return the favor tenfold.
Batman doesnt want to get shot.........OK....Swagger doesnt want to be apprehended. How silly does that sound?
And yes, his cape saved him from flame against Harvey Two Face, but he also became a stationary target. Remember how he knelt down and let the flame pass by? He wasn't able to move because his flame was as solid as rock. All Swagger would have to do is chew beef jerky, wait for him to desolidify his cape, and BOOM.
Yeah, it seems that they would have thought of that beforehand and planned ahead for it, but it is never proven.
You were the one who said we are going by what is in the movies, and it is not in the movies, so therefore it holds no water.
You are focusing WAY too much on minute and trivial things, you interpreted something one way, I cleared the air, said what I really meant, simple as that.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
It is indeed an agree to disagree situation, I even discounted Bob Lee from the books because you were making my eardrums hurt, remember?
I can probably be convinced, IF someone goes the same route as Robtard did in the Solo versus Kirk thread. If you recall, I was adamant about Solo being able to take Kirk. But, when I looked at all the facts provided to me, I had to concede Kirk would win.
Nothing you have said has made a dent in my argument.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Precisely, you discounted it because of me, not because it's not the proper forum, which is worrying.
Why on Earth would I have read that thread? Sounds boring as a gardening book library.
Nothing anyone has said has made a dent in your BELIEFS, not your argument. Your argument has been dented more than the skull of a dropped baby, there IS a difference. You sitting there saying "Nah, don't agree." isn't WRONG, it's just ridiculous.
You brought it to my attention, I saw where the confusion lay, so I rectified. Whats the problem? Why are you dwelling on it so? I would have done the same for Scyhte, or anyone else here.
You would read the thread because you seem to think I cannot be swayed at all once I make a stand. Not true, and you know it.
My argument and my beliefs are one in the same, they are in fact related, and the same goes for you or anyone else who posts here.
I am doing far more than saying "Nah, dont agree", and you know it. Nice try though.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
I think you can't be swayed here because you said so, not that you can't in general.
Not really. If a cancer patient is told they have cancer and will eventually die, but refuse to acknowledge it, what can be done? Everyone has dented your argument, just not your ability to see why yours is ridiculous.
Not wrong, just ridiculous. The only reason it's not wrong is because it hasn't happened either way, nor will it. If it did, you'd be sitting there eating your words, but it won't, so you aren't.
And to think, you said I interpret what YOU say too literally.
Obviously you're not literally saying those words, it was an exaggeration, but that's the extent of your argument. You disagree, great. You've offered no realistic way he would beat Batman.
You've made it seem easy, to the point of a one shot kill, now you've started second guessing yourself, so you've realised you have to give Batman credit, but not too much or you'll start having to admit the more realistic outcome, but hey, it happens.
Your favourite kind of debate is the one where you can't be proven "wrong" and don't have to prove yourself "right", so I understand why this favours you.
So if I say I am a Chinese Jet Pilot, then come back and say I am a night auditor, it's too late? am a Chinese Jet Pilot for life?
It's ridiculous to you because everyone here is assuming Swagger is just some piece of white trash with a rifle.
No realistic way? So in your opinion Batman is a god, he can avoid sniper fire, small arms fire ranging from pistols to assault rifles, AND negotiate a field of claymore mines. Who's being unrealistic here? Under all that armor, behind all those fancy gadgets, he is a man, flesh and bone. No WAY he can counter all that Swagger has to offer if Swagger has all the tools of his trade to work with.
Lets say two guys are fighting, one is a pro boxer, the other has little or no training. If the guy with no training has a knife, baseball bat and a machete to fall back on, who's gonna win? Somehow I know you will try and turn this against me.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Do you specialise in using irrelevant examples? Saying you are one of those things, then changing your mind are two different things. You either are or you aren't. It's a moot point, there's no yes or no answer for it.
Let's focus on what's relevant, stop dodging: you said "I can't.", not "I can.". What one is it, RJ? They are both opposite to one another. Obviously now it's "I can." because you realise that your original belief (And the one I believe you still hold) would render your thread pointless.
We've all seen the same movie, RJ. I'M not assuming he's that, I'm suggesting he couldn't beat Batman. Hardly a detrimental trait is it?
That's funny.
"Under all that, behind all of his stuff, he's just a man.". Yes, and? It's not Swagger Vs Bruce Wayne, it's Swagger Vs Batman. Why say "Under all that stuff." as if it doesn't matter? That's like saying Swagger could beat Dr. Doom because under everything he would use to win, he's just a man. Yes, but he wouldn't be fighting naked would he? Same with Batman.
Well, you know I'll turn it against you because you know you are getting carried away and digging a hole.
Three weapons, two hands, he can only ever use two at a time. A baseball bat requires both hands and would severely limit his attack and movement, all it takes is ducking a swing or grabbing the bat. A baseball bat also relies on blunt force, which you aren't likely to generate with one arm, so that's out of the question. Knife? Close range, it's as possible that he'll get grabbed, disarmed and beaten as it is that he'll land a stabbing blow.
The machete is the only real weapon that is any threat. A pro boxer would, even still, be adept at dodging swinging attacks. So it's still not a forgone conclusion. I'd give the boxer the win just out of awareness, agility and power.
Next time, take a look at the scenarios you provide and think whether or not they're able to be dissected.
I understand that, AC. However I want to get everyone else's thoughts. Sometimes words can get misconstrued. If the book version is being used, then the discussion to move to the "Shooter" version of Swagger. Else I'll close the thread.
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Jul 19th, 2008 10:25 AM
