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Arthur's Power
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REXXXX
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Oh, Linda Tavara, right.

And yeah, that's basically what I was thinking happened with Adam. It makes sense and it's simple.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 06:16 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is many degrees of magnitude simpler than people make it out to be. JayJohn85 pretty much has it, and celestialdemon's problem with it makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would being shot interrupt it? Why would anythijng interrupt it? That is a complete non sequitur. The only thing that interrupts it is if the power itself stops working.

So- very simple. Monroe's cells, after centuries of regeneration and resisting ageing, are on the verge of collapse. Only his healing factor keeps them in play. As soon as it goes, they go, and that's it.

That's all there will ever be to it.


It does make sense. Angela said Adam's cells are dying as fast as they are healing. If an outside source causes his cells to die at an abnormally faster rate, how is his body supposed to compensate for that? It shouldn't be able to.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 07:06 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain REX
Oh, Linda Tavara, right.

And yeah, that's basically what I was thinking happened with Adam. It makes sense and it's simple.


Linda's power was actually to steal life forces, and the side effect was she gained someone's power if he/she had one. The difference with Arthur is he didn't harm Peter in the slightest.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 07:10 PM
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Mairuzu
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Hmm, i wonder if arthur stole her power


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 07:31 PM
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Blue_Hefner
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lol

Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 07:48 PM
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REXXXX
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I know, Celestial.

As for Adam's body compensating for outside interruptions... well, it just does! Being shot is not interrupting the cycle of his cells regenerating, or his power would be absolutely useless.

If his cells are dying just as fast as they are regenerating and you take away the regenerating factor, then they are just dying.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 07:50 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Hmm, i wonder if arthur stole her power


Nope. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Linderman killed her when he was younger. Shot her dead when she tried to absorb his life force.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 09:07 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain REX
I know, Celestial.

As for Adam's body compensating for outside interruptions... well, it just does! Being shot is not interrupting the cycle of his cells regenerating, or his power would be absolutely useless.

If his cells are dying just as fast as they are regenerating and you take away the regenerating factor, then they are just dying.


I understand that if you take away the regeneration factor, then they are just dying. My problem is if his body is dying just as fast as it's healing, then his body should not be able to recover from any other damage done to it, because it's too busy keeping the rest of his body from aging.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 09:23 PM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celestialdemon
Nope. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Linderman killed her when he was younger. Shot her dead when she tried to absorb his life force.
Thats right! that was [SPOILER - highlight to read]: linderman.. i keep thinking it was arthur


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 09:44 PM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celestialdemon
I understand that if you take away the regeneration factor, then they are just dying. My problem is if his body is dying just as fast as it's healing, then his body should not be able to recover from any other damage done to it, because it's too busy keeping the rest of his body from aging.
In other words.... overload


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 09:45 PM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celestialdemon
I understand that if you take away the regeneration factor, then they are just dying. My problem is if his body is dying just as fast as it's healing, then his body should not be able to recover from any other damage done to it, because it's too busy keeping the rest of his body from aging.


That's just a fact you have completely made up though. No-one said it is dying as fast as it is healing, only that it is constanly healing and only that constant healing keeps him from falling apart.

There is no 'overload'. There is no problem. He is healing just fine- in fact, he does nothing BUT heal, which is why his cells stay intact. No amount of injury can change that.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 10:03 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's just a fact you have completely made up though. No-one said it is dying as fast as it is healing, only that it is constanly healing and only that constant healing keeps him from falling apart.

There is no 'overload'. There is no problem. He is healing just fine- in fact, he does nothing BUT heal, which is why his cells stay intact. No amount of injury can change that.


I didn't make it up. Maybe you should go back and look at some old episodes. Angela herself said Adam's cells were dying and regenerating at the same rate, which is what stopped his aging. Try researching before accusing someone of making something up.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 10:06 PM
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Ushgarak
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'At the same rate' as in he is stable. Not as in ALL his healing power was being used to stop it. That is evident nonsense else he wouldn't be able to heal at all.

You've completely mis-interpreted what she said. The natural conclusion to that would be 'so therefore resisting ageing is not using up all his healing power' (which has no limits anyway), not, as some people have jumped to, 'this makes the way he dies make no internal sense.'

You people are making up problems were there are none. It's ridiculous. This was a very simple thing that you are taking absurd exception to.

The much, much bigger problem here is not any internal logic problem, but a 'crappy storytelling' problem, as this whole incident was an absurd waste of Monroe (who was actially aninteresting, amusing and well-acted character, far better than any of the crappy new villains seen this season so far) and seems just a plot cul-de-sac for Hiro that you do wonder if there are too many episodes in the season, so they have to make irrelevant things happen.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 24th, 2008 at 10:16 PM

Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 10:07 PM
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celestialdemon
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Adam doesn't heal instantly. It takes a few seconds for his body to repair the damage. When Arthur took his power, Adam aged hundreds of years and turned to dust at a rate similar to his healing. So if every cell in his body is dying, then every is healing itself. There's no cells left to repair any other damage. If they did, then Adam should age in the time it takes to do the repair.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 10:31 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
In other words.... overload


Exactly.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 10:32 PM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celestialdemon
There's no cells left to repair any other damage.


See, again, that's just you making a fact up. As if the power even works on 'how many cells he has available'. That's all extra complicatiion you put in for no reason. Why would you think it works like that?

And again, saying 'overload' assumes that his healing power is 100% taken up by resisitng ageing, even though we have absolutely no reason to think that at all- none. he has a healing factor something within his genetic make-up. Evidently, it has a limitless power; it cannot be overloaded in any way at all.

So then your final sentence:

"If they did, then Adam should age in the time it takes to do the repair."

Makes no sense at all- it is based upon an entirely false, unsupported assumption.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 10:36 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celestialdemon
I understand that if you take away the regeneration factor, then they are just dying. My problem is if his body is dying just as fast as it's healing, then his body should not be able to recover from any other damage done to it, because it's too busy keeping the rest of his body from aging.
I think your deductions don't follow from what we know. Personally, what you think should have happened, is also what would have made more sense to me, but there is nothing illogical about him aging quickly, it is just a different look at how healing factors and cells work.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 11:04 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
[B]See, again, that's just you making a fact up. As if the power even works on 'how many cells he has available'. That's all extra complicatiion you put in for no reason. Why would you think it works like that?

And again, saying 'overload' assumes that his healing power is 100% taken up by resisitng ageing, even though we have absolutely no reason to think that at all- none. he has a healing factor something within his genetic make-up. Evidently, it has a limitless power; it cannot be overloaded in any way at all.


Because every cell in his body is being used to to heal the dying of every cell in his body. If every cell in his body is being used to prevent themselves from aging at an extremely rapid rate, then how are they going to repair a wound?

You're right. We don't know for sure if 100% of his healing factor was used to keep him from aging. What we do know is that when his power was taken away, his body aged at a rate that was at least as fast as I've ever seen him heal. Since his healing is constantly working as fast as it can to keep him alive, it's my opinion that it shouldn't have been able to heal anything else.

It wasn't limitless. Even Adam feared taking a shotgun blast to the head. Plus, his body didn't heal until the arrows he was shot with were removed. So there is a limit.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 11:42 PM
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celestialdemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think your deductions don't follow from what we know. Personally, what you think should have happened, is also what would have made more sense to me, but there is nothing illogical about him aging quickly, it is just a different look at how healing factors and cells work.


Actually, there is something illogical. If not having his power anymore would cause him to age quickly, then he would have died already in the presence of the Haitian.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2008 11:46 PM
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REXXXX
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I think Ush is right about 'crappy storytelling' as far as that goes, Celestial. But he has it right about the genetic make-up of his cell regeneration. The cells can heal physical damage while healing the aging damage simultaneously.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2008 12:03 AM
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