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Top 5 Best Guitarists Ever
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Gideon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you honestly ever think "I wonder if I can say Schon's name without descending into a saliva-drenched praise-jerk."?

Genuine question.

-AC


No.

Do you honestly ever think "Does my House impersonation ever get old?"

Genuine question.

(it does)

Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 02:36 AM
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Ultimate Wil
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
No.

Do you honestly ever think "Does my House impersonation ever get old?"

Genuine question.

(it does)


laughing out loud


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 03:31 AM
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Gideon
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Easy, Wil. Any minute now, AC will read your contribution, consult his House dvds (he might pop one in for good measure), grab his cane, wobble on over to his computer, and spend half an hour trying to cobble together some witty, sarcastic remark where he'll remind you that the title of this thread says "top five best guitarists" and point out that you have four more to go.

He's that predictable.

Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 03:49 AM
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Five favs, in no particular order...

Steve Vai
Jimmy Hendrix
Les Claypool
Slash
Jani Liimatainen


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 05:50 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
Easy, Wil. Any minute now, AC will read your contribution, consult his House dvds (he might pop one in for good measure), grab his cane, wobble on over to his computer, and spend half an hour trying to cobble together some witty, sarcastic remark where he'll remind you that the title of this thread says "top five best guitarists" and point out that you have four more to go.

He's that predictable.


1) If you were as sharp as your wit clearly is, you'd see I've already said that. So clearly I'm not predictable, I'm ahead.

2) I've never watched an episode of House in my life, actually.

However, if the best thing you can come up with is comparing me to a rather decent English actor, then I'll take that.

I'll take that gladly over you not being able to say Neal Schon's name in a thread without lubing him up and pounding away, as if you have to continually prove you like him. Seriously, you post his name, post a video, then say "Enough said.". It's not enough said, because you then feel you have to give us his biography...every time.

However, you've answered my question: no, you don't ever ask yourself if you can do that.

You should try. Say it, say "Neal Schon", and let that be that.

-AC


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 05:54 AM
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Ultimate Wil
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
Easy, Wil. Any minute now, AC will read your contribution, consult his House dvds (he might pop one in for good measure), grab his cane, wobble on over to his computer, and spend half an hour trying to cobble together some witty, sarcastic remark where he'll remind you that the title of this thread says "top five best guitarists" and point out that you have four more to go.

He's that predictable.


laughing out loud , I know, he is pretty damn predictable. Including the part about saying I have 4 more guitarists to go.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 06:05 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


2) I've never watched an episode of House in my life, actually.



you should...


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 06:12 PM
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Ultimate Wil
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Neal Schon

He is good Gideon, but he isn't the best that I have seen. Still pretty good.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 08:15 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
1) If you were as sharp as your wit clearly is, you'd see I've already said that. So clearly I'm not predictable, I'm ahead.


A sharp wit suggests that the person who wields it is sharp himself. According to your profile, you're in your twenties. At your age, there's no excuse for such stupidity. I mean, this isn't exactly quantum physics. Given that you spend twenty four hours of your life hacking away at your keyboard with some genuinely intelligent people, one would think that you could at least pick up a few tricks.

Are you used to being House-lite without a response from someone? I'm glad to have opened your eyes.

quote:
2) I've never watched an episode of House in my life, actually.


Right. Like any of us believe that.

quote:
However, if the best thing you can come up with is comparing me to a rather decent English actor, then I'll take that.


House isn't an actor, actually. He's a fictional doctor. Hugh Laurie would be the actor. Seriously, AC, are you sleep deprived? I haven't read such shit from you since that one time you proposed that Geddy Lee was as good or even better as a singer than Steve Perry.

quote:
I'll take that gladly over you not being able to say Neal Schon's name in a thread without lubing him up and pounding away, as if you have to continually prove you like him. Seriously, you post his name, post a video, then say "Enough said.". It's not enough said, because you then feel you have to give us his biography...every time.


Someone has to pay the man his due. Might as well be me.

quote:
However, you've answered my question: no, you don't ever ask yourself if you can do that.


That's right.

Unlike you, AC, I don't generally say stupid things. I know full well what I typed.

quote:
You should try. Say it, say "Neal Schon", and let that be that.


His name is enough to summon the most degenerate and unkempt of sexual desires.

Before you come back for more (and you will), raise your game or kindly step off the court.

@ Wil,

It seems as though everyone is listing their favorites, not those whom they regard as best. How do you define best? What are the parameters? Technical skill? Reputation? Both? It's a vague description. As far as Schon goes, his technical skill is phemomenal. This is a man who was considered a world-class guitarist by two of the world's greatest when he was a teenager (he had only picked up a guitar five years prior). The likes of Joe Satriani, Slash, Sammy Hagar, Phil Collen, Vivian Campbell have given Schon countless accolades. Reportedly, for the Hear N' Aid (the rock version of We Are the World), Yngwie Malmsteen was impressed with Schon's performance.

Is he the greatest? Hell no. But the idea that if you're not a household name you have no talent is rather dumb.

Of course, AC tried that one against me, too...

Last edited by Gideon on Dec 15th, 2008 at 10:18 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 10:11 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
A sharp wit suggests that the person who wields it is sharp himself. According to your profile, you're in your twenties. At your age, there's no excuse for such stupidity. I mean, this isn't exactly quantum physics. Given that you spend twenty four hours of your life hacking away at your keyboard with some genuinely intelligent people, one would think that you could at least pick up a few tricks.

Are you used to being House-lite without a response from someone? I'm glad to have opened your eyes.


The only cliche is the cliche itself. You play the cool, "I'm not impressed." guy who inevitably comes along and tries to show the old, perceived tough guy how it's done, then gets a big cheer from all the dullards who have been on the receiving end of a whooping stick for the past...however long.

It's ok, I get it. This would be really thrilling if I was who or what you claim I am. Unfortunately, your claim falls on its face considering that to be a wannabe, I'd have to be aware of the character's traits. You should have picked a more relevant show. Regardless, this isn't a thread for discussing House, so I'll take your compliment and let that be the last I say on the matter. I wish to keep this on topic.

By the way, I am curious. What stupidity? Me calling you out on your perpetual Neal Schon fellation? Because I can see why you'd be considering that stupid. It's ok, you're offended, it happens.

All I'm saying is, maybe just chill a little. Nobody is trying to rob you of a right to love or like Neal Schon, just suggesting that you don't need to be his publicist every time you post his name.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
Right. Like any of us believe that.


Any of us? So I was right, you do perceive yourself as the voice of a number of folks. Sad, really.

Honestly, though. I haven't. I know of the show, never seen it though. I don't watch, or listen to, shit. Hence why you have shown up to inform me greater on House and Journey.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
House isn't an actor, actually. He's a fictional doctor. Hugh Laurie would be the actor. Seriously, AC, are you sleep deprived? I haven't read such shit from you since that one time you proposed that Geddy Lee was as good or even better as a singer than Steve Perry.


Exactly, House is a character played by Hugh Laurie, I know that much about the show. So, thanks for mentioning me in the same breath as an act that has won critical acclaim. Appreciate it, sir.

Still on that? I obviously hit a nerve. It must be genuinely so tough splitting your time between Perry and Schon. Do any of them get jealous? Were you secretly the woman in the Separate Ways video?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
Someone has to pay the man his due. Might as well be me.


What due? He's a highly regarded guitarist, as you are aware and as we're all aware, mostly. He's not being robbed of any due. I've never denied the man's accolades, either. I'm simply saying that you don't actually need to assume you're going around educating us on Neal Schon. We're aware, and if people aren't aware, it's probably because they don't give a shit, and your post wasn't going to change that.

So again, we're back at the start of this whole fiasco, aren't we? Me being puzzled by your unexplainable passion for salivating over Neal Schon every time you say his name.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
That's right.

Unlike you, AC, I don't generally say stupid things. I know full well what I typed.


Haha, how would you "generally" know what I say? You poke your head out of whatever minor subforum you dwell in once in a blue moon, post something about Neal Schon, then recede like a hairline

That said, your constant and almost nauseating promotion of Schon is generally stupid, in my opinion.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
His name is enough to summon the most degenerate and unkempt of sexual desires.

Before you come back for more (and you will), raise your game or kindly step off the court.


Wouldn't anyone have to step off the court to come back, regardless of good or bad performance? Didn't entirely think that through, did you? Try it.

I get it though, and you know better. We both know better. You cockily praise yourself by telling me to raise my game etc, we go back and forth. I get it Gideon, there have been many of your kind on this site. It's like Tony Montana and his banker, "You go high, I go low, I get it.". I do, Gideon. My only point was (Or question):

Why do you continually feel you have to promote Schon? What are you getting out of it? People who know him know that he's good. You, admittedly, are a fanboy. If memory serves correct, you've admitted you're a fanboy. Fanboys by general nature, over-appreciate. I'm not taking anything away from Schon, I'm just not boning the man, and nobody besides you mentions him because...aware or not, champ, we just...don't care about him. You continually repeat shit you've said on this forum, about Schon, time and time again.

You have never been able to, and will never be able to, accept this.

Proof:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
It seems as though everyone is listing their favorites, not those whom they regard as best. How do you define best? What are the parameters? Technical skill? Reputation? Both? It's a vague description. As far as Schon goes, his technical skill is phemomenal. This is a man who was considered a world-class guitarist by two of the world's greatest when he was a teenager (he had only picked up a guitar five years prior). The likes of Joe Satriani, Slash, Sammy Hagar, Phil Collen, Vivian Campbell have given Schon countless accolades. Reportedly, for the Hear N' Aid (the rock version of We Are the World), Yngwie Malmsteen was impressed with Schon's performance.

Is he the greatest? Hell no. But the idea that if you're not a household name you have no talent is rather dumb.

Of course, AC tried that one against me, too...


If you were sharp enough, you'd realise that it has changed from "Best" to favourites.

Your biggest argument for Schon was always how good he was as a kid, and you struggled with the idea that you are not always a prodigy. He was outstanding for his age, in the truest sense of the word, but as he got older his ability did not increase enough to warrant the praise you give him for how good he WAS, in relation to his youth.

That's what you've always failed to grasp. "He was this good when he was a teenager.". So? So what? He's not anymore. He was surpassed by guitarists who came after, Van Halen for one. Then you tried saying "Sammy Hagar says Schon is better.". So? Sammy Hagar isn't as good as either Schon nor Van Halen, and better guitarists than Hagar rate many guitarists above Schon, including Van Halen.

This continually baffled you, and still does, I bet.

Furthermore, "Is he the greatest? Hell no.", well then if you're going to talk about "Best", why say he doesn't get due? He doesn't deserve due if due is "Best", does he? Cos he's not. If it's favourite, then you can name him all you like. You contradict yourself.

"Everyone's naming their favs, not who is best." (Then you named Schon). "I'm giving Schon his due, somebody has to.", "Is he the greatest? Hell no.".

What? Then why name him?

Secondly, I've never, ever said that if you're not a household name, you're not talented. When did I ever try to use that argument?

-AC


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Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Dec 15th, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2008 11:00 PM
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I'm impressed with the diatribe and how many mistakes were in it.

a.) AC, you're a 20-something-year-old guy who spends an unheathy amount of time posting on forums and debating pop culture. The idea that you're unaware of House is rather dumb to imply; you know the actor's name and it's one of the most popular television series currently running. You know about House, don't bother playing stupid. No one here believes that you're mystically ignorant about it.

b.) House is the character, Laurie is the actor. I compared you to the character, not the actor. "LOL THX FOR COMPRING ME TO HEW LARRIE" was extraordinarily lame. You can do better.

c.) Geddy Lee vs. Steve Perry. You made the claim, but I'm glad you don't deny it. Your logic tends to involve how many accolades person X gets from famed musician Y. Lee is not a regarded singer; Perry is. Perry wins, you lose.

d.) I never claimed that this was a list of "best" guitarists. I read the thread prior to posting, I'm aware that it was intended to be a list of favorite guitarists. I didn't preface my list with the statement that it was one of the most accomplished ax-men nor did I make a subsequent claim thereof. As I posted below, Schon isn't the greatest nor do I even believe he's the most skilled; I have never made either contention. That I list him as number one would, in my opinion, inspire any intelligent person to conclude that I was clearly giving a list of my personal favorite guitarists.

e.) Prove Eddie Van Halen is better than Neal Schon. And then prove that many guitarists consider him better.

f.) Regarding "nobody giving a shit about Neal Schon," Joe Satriani, Slash, Sammy Hagar, Yngwie Malmsteen, Vivian Campbell, ect. are some of those who do. Clearly somebody does. Or is it your contention that because you don't, no one else does? Who's pretending to speak for others now, AC?

Besides, we all know you obviously do give a shit. You've spent a lot of time arguing about him. And more than once. True apathy would likely manifest in a lack of attention to this discussion. You care and your constant protests that you don't are embarrassing because you contradict yourself by discussing this at all.

I know this will continue before one of us gets bored and goes off to do something else. Honestly, though, I don't think you're an idiot. I just think you're so quick to be antagonistic that you say things that are provably false.

Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 12:11 AM
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Ultimate Wil
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
@ Wil,

It seems as though everyone is listing their favorites, not those whom they regard as best. How do you define best? What are the parameters? Technical skill? Reputation? Both? It's a vague description. As far as Schon goes, his technical skill is phemomenal. This is a man who was considered a world-class guitarist by two of the world's greatest when he was a teenager (he had only picked up a guitar five years prior). The likes of Joe Satriani, Slash, Sammy Hagar, Phil Collen, Vivian Campbell have given Schon countless accolades. Reportedly, for the Hear N' Aid (the rock version of We Are the World), Yngwie Malmsteen was impressed with Schon's performance.

Is he the greatest? Hell no. But the idea that if you're not a household name you have no talent is rather dumb.

Of course, AC tried that one against me, too...


I am not asking who the best is, I just want your favorites. How do I define best? Shredding ability, guitar solos, how good they are, reputation doesn't matter. They need a rep, but a rep doesn't make them good. Schon is good, but I wouldn't say he is my favorite, or one of them, although if there was a top 10, he would be on it probably. Well tons of guitarists think Schon is great, but Schon isn't the only one they like. EX. Ozzy was impressed by Buckethead, and actually wanted to have him play with him. By the way Buckethead didn't because Ozzy wouldn't let him. He wouldn't take the bucket off laughing out loud .

He isn't the greatest, but he kicks ass.

Well unlike me, AC is stupid.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 12:15 AM
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Alpha Centauri
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Wil, you genuinely don't know anything, but well done for proving my point. It was almost prophetic;

"You play the cool guy who inevitably comes along and tries to show the old, perceived tough guy how it's done, then gets a big cheer from all the dullards who have been on the receiving end of a whooping stick for the past...however long.".

It applies to you.

Gideon, I've sent the irrelevant part of your reply to your PM box.

I'll say one thing though.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm impressed with the diatribe and how many mistakes were in it.

a.) AC, you're a 20-something-year-old guy who spends an unheathy amount of time posting on forums and debating pop culture.


Shocking. A 20 something year old male who spends time on a forum debating things to do with culture, popular or not; relevant mostly.

You spend time on KMC discussing and filling your profile with over-analytical Star Wars nonsense. I'd say you're coming up on the worse end of the "Pathetic" scale.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
d.) I never claimed that this was a list of "best" guitarists. I read the thread prior to posting, I'm aware that it was intended to be a list of favorite guitarists. I didn't preface my list with the statement that it was one of the most accomplished ax-men nor did I make a subsequent claim thereof. As I posted below, Schon isn't the greatest nor do I even believe he's the most skilled; I have never made either contention. That I list him as number one would, in my opinion, inspire any intelligent person to conclude that I was clearly giving a list of my personal favorite guitarists.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
e.) Prove Eddie Van Halen is better than Neal Schon. And then prove that many guitarists consider him better.


Show me anything Schon has created with the technical skill, musicality or subsequent influence of Eruption. Created, not "He can play Eruption.", created.

Show me anything Schon has done that rivals the solo to Beat It.

Van Halen has pioneered, patented and created not only playing styles, but actual guitar parts. He has innovated the guitar itself.

Van Halen has/had the ability to write anything Schon has ever created. Schon doesn't have the ability, nor has he ever, to write something on the level of Eruption. How do I know this? He was around for ages before, as were many, many others of equal or superior skill. Van Halen wrote Eruption and it changed guitar playing, Schon hasn't ever done that. He's just a guitarist highly regarded for his skill, deservedly so. Not for incorporating that skill into writing and creating things that nobody else could have.

Schon is not often listed in the area of influential or innovative guitarists, just peoples' favourites. Just like when you're talking about drummers, Bonham isn't listed as massively innovative because he wasn't. He's just a favourite of many better drummers than himself, why? Because they like his music.

They like Schon's music and he, like Bonham, is very skilled. Just not near the best, and that's all I'm saying.

Van Halen is, to everyone aware of music, regarded as one of the most skilled guitarists there is. You should know this. Schon isn't, is he? No.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
f.) Regarding "nobody giving a shit about Neal Schon," Joe Satriani, Slash, Sammy Hagar, Yngwie Malmsteen, Vivian Campbell, ect. are some of those who do. Clearly somebody does. Or is it your contention that because you don't, no one else does? Who's pretending to speak for others now, AC?


Did you read my post? I'll re-quote it because, well, you ignored it:

"Why do you continually feel you have to promote Schon? What are you getting out of it? People who know him know that he's good. You, admittedly, are a fanboy. If memory serves correct, you've admitted you're a fanboy. Fanboys by general nature, over-appreciate. I'm not taking anything away from Schon, I'm just not boning the man, and nobody besides you mentions him because...aware or not, champ, we just...don't care about him. You continually repeat shit you've said on this forum, about Schon, time and time again.".

I simply said that those of us HERE who are aware of Schon obviously do not care enough to mention him, and those who do not know him still obviously do not care enough.

I never once said "Nobody gives a shit about Neal Schon.", did I? Silly, silly boy.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
Besides, we all know you obviously do give a shit. You've spent a lot of time arguing about him. And more than once. True apathy would likely manifest in a lack of attention to this discussion. You care and your constant protests that you don't are embarrassing because you contradict yourself by discussing this at all.


I have spent time debating guitarists with you, of which he is one. That does not mean I care about Neal Schon. Wait...didn't you just say I fail at logic? "You talk about him, so you care.". What?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
I know this will continue before one of us gets bored and goes off to do something else. Honestly, though, I don't think you're an idiot. I just think you're so quick to be antagonistic that you say things that are provably false.


Whew, thankfully you don't think I'm an idiot...really.

In all seriousness, what's provably false? My original claim was that you over-promote Neal Schon with such fanboyistic glee that I find it peculiar and nauseating. You haven't proven it false, you've proven it correct, if anything.


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Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Dec 16th, 2008 at 12:35 AM

Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 12:25 AM
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Ultimate Wil
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You know I just realized something. You shoudn't really say 20 something year old male when your gender says Unspecified. Kinda stupid.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 12:43 AM
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People here know I'm a male, I don't need to advertise it in my sidebar.

Gideon knows anyway, so I don't need it to be specified.

Stop being silly.

-AC


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 12:51 AM
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Ultimate Wil
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People here know I'm a male, I don't need to advertise it in my sidebar.

Gideon knows anyway, so I don't need it to be specified.

Stop being silly.

-AC


Well, it is kinda stupid, that's it.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 12:55 AM
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You said much more than one thing. I'll PM you the rest, but as for the Eddie Van Halen vs. Neal Schon scenario, you cannot prove that EVH is technically superior.

He's an innovator. So what? Thomas Edison was an innovator. Guess his lights bulbs are better than everyone else's. Except that that isn't the case. Innovation is a sign of greatness and creativity; that doesn't mean that EVH is faster or more technically accomplished.

When you get me proof that EVH can play things Schon can't, but not vice versa, we'll talk.

I want word for word proof from a credible source. All you've said thus far is "EVH > Schon 'cause I say so."

Joking and barbs aside, AC, your word isn't good enough. I want proof. Until I get it, you have not made your point.

Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 01:01 AM
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Ultimate Wil
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
You said much more than one thing. I'll PM you the rest, but as for the Eddie Van Halen vs. Neal Schon scenario, you cannot prove that EVH is technically superior.

He's an innovator. So what? Thomas Edison was an innovator. Guess his lights bulbs are better than everyone else's. Except that that isn't the case. Innovation is a sign of greatness and creativity; that doesn't mean that EVH is faster or more technically accomplished.

When you get me proof that EVH can play things Schon can't, but not vice versa, we'll talk.

I want word for word proof from a credible source. All you've said thus far is "EVH > Schon 'cause I say so."

Joking and barbs aside, AC, your word isn't good enough. I want proof. Until I get it, you have not made your point.


It is just a matter of opinion. Like my opinion is that Angus Young is better than both, IMO though.

If I had to choose between EVH, or Schon, it is a tough choice, but I would choose Schon, not by much. Both kick ass though.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 01:09 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
You said much more than one thing. I'll PM you the rest, but as for the Eddie Van Halen vs. Neal Schon scenario, you cannot prove that EVH is technically superior.

He's an innovator. So what? Thomas Edison was an innovator. Guess his lights bulbs are better than everyone else's. Except that that isn't the case. Innovation is a sign of greatness and creativity; that doesn't mean that EVH is faster or more technically accomplished.


Like I said, Schon hasn't ever done anything as technically superior as Eruption. If he had, guitarists would know about it and would rank him above Van Halen. You look at any knowledgeable, critical poll and Schon isn't often ranked anywhere near the best, or near Van Halen.

I have seen a fair few of them in my time, and I'm sure you have too. Have you ever seen critics or guitarists actually rate Schon higher than Van Halen? Not "I like Schon, he's brilliant.".

Edison will always be regarded as a better genius than someone who invents a different version of the light bulb, because they're working with something existing. He created the thing.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
When you get me proof that EVH can play things Schon can't, but not vice versa, we'll talk.

I want word for word proof from a credible source. All you've said thus far is "EVH > Schon 'cause I say so."

Joking and barbs aside, AC, your word isn't good enough. I want proof. Until I get it, you have not made your point.


By extension, you need to prove he is. Cos implication seems to be that you feel Schon is technically better.

I've given you proof. It's not just about playing ability, it's about creation. Van Halen is technically advanced enough to create Eruption, Schon isn't, and we both know this for reasons stated previously.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wil Deidara
It is just a matter of opinion. Like my opinion is that Angus Young is better than both, IMO though.


Better in what way, skill? Angus Young? He's actually nowhere near. That's a genuinely laughable claim. Proving that you don't know what you're on about, and Gideon will tell you the same, as will anyone.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wil Deidara
If I had to choose between EVH, or Schon, it is a tough choice, but I would choose Schon, not by much. Both kick ass though.


Just PM him and say "Can I pleasure you?". It's more to the point and probably more dignified than this veiled asskissing.

-AC


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Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Dec 16th, 2008 at 01:23 AM

Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 01:21 AM
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AC, I'm going to drop the pretense of insults or jabs, because I think there is an actual discussion to be made of this. Let me finish Heroes and I'll get right back to you.

Old Post Dec 16th, 2008 01:55 AM
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