We're not speaking about which franchise is better. Clearly most people in this discussion like both as the opinions are, until now anyway, away from the realm of sad fanboy bullshit.
3! I was leveled all the way up, only 2/3 the way through. Of course, I was missing 5 secrets (a couple of crystals and some other things that i can't remember) after my first time through. Since I love the look of the unstable purple crystal, that's the only one I stuck with.
However, I couldn't see going through the game 3 times. Why did you have to do that?
And then there's the Star Destroyer. dun dun dunnnnnn
The Empire wins with numbers.
And the reason this thread has done better than other like threads:
Most people posting are both Star Wars and Star Trek fans.
We've already been through the facts that they can't match even federation ships in terms of range or firepower. Never mind more powerful species like species 8472 (who can combine a few tiny 1 lifeform crewed bioships and destroy entire planets) and who have the run of an entire alternate universe and who's numbers are likely uncalculable) We see thousands of their ships in the episode "scorpion". These would have a combined power far greater than the death star or sun crusher or whatever else the SW universe has.
The borg run about 3/4 of the delta quadrant. They are mentioned as populating thousands of star systems with millions of planets, have millions of borg cubes populated by trillions of drones. Even the central core space station is populated with trillions of drones.
That's just 1 species. The dominion have similar numbers. Add that to the federation, the Romulan star empire, the Klingon empire, the Breen, the Cardassians, the Kazon, The Husnock, The Hirogen, the Swarm.
In terms of technology with weapons, star wars relies on direct energy weapons, star trek has multi regenerative shielding and ablative armour which render energy weapons next to useless. They also have weapons which by pass the shields of their enemies because they phase out of normal space time and reappear inside the shield perimeter (or even inside) of their enemies vessels.
I like them both. As far as fighting goes it can go either way but when it comes down to sheer coolness Star Wars blows Star Trek out of the f*cking water.
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My piont is, I think you just ran through the game, literally. It shouldn't have taken 3 runs to get all the way leveled up. It should have taken about 2/3 the way before you were leveled up.
Oh, and....there's also an exploit in the game. The communication tower you destroy has a hologcron that can be recollected if you die..over and over again. I discovered that by falling off, like a douche, the first time through. I also used many of the characters there to level up other stats while collecting the yellow holocron each time I respawned.
Since when did Species 8427 become part of this "vs."?
Also, my point was it could destroy a planet. The power to accomplish such a thing vastly eclipses anything the Federationn, Klingons, Cardassians, or Dominion has done.
Everything is good, except the Borg are not "one species". They are many.
Regardless of classification of the organic parts that the hybrid uses, once you have nanobots for blood and a can opener where your dick used to be, you is Borg.
8472 weren't banned by the OP, unless i missed it while reading. Those ships are insane.
Then you have the Hirogen, the Krenim (though i'm not sure if they apply, because of being in an Alternate Universe, unless you use the temporal ship too). Then there's the Borg, and that's just the Delta Quadrant.
Beta Quadrant has the Romulans, the Breen and the Klingons.
Alpha Quadrant has the Federation and the Cardassians.
I really don't think Star Wars can claim numerical superiority...
You're right. I did run through it but I don't think simply collecting all the holocrons and killing all the bad guys would give sufficient points to level all the way up in 1 play through. Then again, I didn't do the most complex combos so probably wasn't getting maximum points for killing most of the enemies.
I didn't know that.
They fulfill the criteria of the OP as they weren't disallowed and they've had alliances with the federation ins some matters. They would destroy the empire on their own anyway.
Wrong...The enterprise D destroyed a planet accidently when using it's phasers to stabilise a tectonic plate and the enterprise D is weak in terms of power compared even with other federation ships.
And as i've previously mentioned....Species 8472 can destroy a planet with a few linked small bioships.
8m 20 has them doing just that.
Again, The empire has nothing to counter many of ST weapons that i've already listed earlier in this thread.
Why can't we leave it at UFP, Klingons, and cardassians? If we include those other powerful species, then we should include things like the Yuuzhan Vong on the Empire's side.
Wrong.
The planet wasn't almost compolete vaporized like the Death Star does. What was the episode for that? I searched and I searched and I couldn't find anything.
Also, that would be a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened in that TNG episode. I don't remember the episode name..but I know what you're talking about.
And calling the Enterprise D "weak" is wrong as well. The Enterprise D was one of the most advanced ships of it's time. Also, what time was set for the Star Trek universe? last half of the 24th Century?
I've read the entire thread (And many other Star Trek vs. threads.) I am betting on Star Trek winning this. However, I like to "destroy" or "bolster" as many pro-Star Trek points as possible to elminate incorrect points and solidy others...to avoid "bias". I'm playing devil's advocate.
And, IMO, Species 8427 should not be included in this debate at all. That is very unorthodox of a Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate. The Borg shouldn't be included, either.
You've obviously not read the entire thread or you'd know that the OP stated
So the Vong are allowed...but the OP also said that the armies aren't allowed to make alliances that they didn't make in canon plots. Although he got it wrong that the Borg didn't make an alliance with the federation.
Of its time, yes. Compare it to the defiant (of the same time), the upgraded voyager (by "engame") or to the prometheus class and it's quite poor.
Compare it with even basic borg cubes (nevermind tactical cubes) or with the Reman Schimitar and even Romulan D'deridex-class warbird and it comes off quite poorly in terms of weapons and defence.
I can understand that and at least it's a different standpoint the the screaming SW fanboys who will do anything to try and have their beloved obsession win but the problem that they have is that ST just has more to draw on. The fact that there have been
79 episodes of the original series
178 next generation
176 deep space 9
172 voyager
98 enterprise
and 11 films to draw from then there is going to be a far greater number of species that have had prominence in order to draw from.
Why?...Simply in order to gimp ST further so that SW has a chance of winning? ST have already had their omnipotent being removed because they could simply think the SW universe out of existence (as the Douw'd did to the hussnock)
A temp. agreement with just Voyager and it's crew, not an alliance with UFP, was made with both the 8427 and Borg. And I don't remember him (thread starter) making a clarification on 8427.
However, he failed to mention whether or not Species 8427 falls into the same category as the Borg..
That's why I asked the question.
Here's what he posted that is causing the confusion:
"This is for a military conflict, so ST can not make alliances that do not exist onscreen: The Borg cannot ally itself with the Federation Government, nor with the Dominion. The Romulan empire (I think) can't ally with the Vulcans/Klingons."
We need clarification on whether or not Species 8427 can be included in this vs. because, technically, they aren't part of the Star Trek universe, in a "literal" sense. They are from a universe of "fluidic space."
However, if we are to do a versus of Empire vs. 8427, 8427 wins. That ends that debate, so now we can move onto other ST versus comparisons.
Sorry, no, that's still incorrect. It is still quite a formidable ship. All PIS aside, compare the encyclopedia technologies and it isn't very far behind. In fact it was faster than Voyager if we are to compare enhancements, the Enterprise traveled to the other side of the Universe in mere seconds(take that "transwarp" Voyager.), has a larger crew capacity and many more systems, better sensors, much more powerful shielding system. Add to that the the Enterprise had a much larger supply of photon torpedoes.
In a full on fire fight, the Voyager ship would be reduced rather quickly (assuming that Voyager is not given their two tricobalt weapons). The Enterprise D's shielding greatly outclasses the smaller ship's shielding. True that he Voyager has 5 photon torpedo bays and 13 phaser banks to the D's 3 and 10.
Compare ANY ship to the NX-59650 and it looks poor. Hell, give Star Fleet a "fleet" of these ships and the Empire doesn't look so big anymore.
As does every other vessel except the NX-59650. Name one ship that single handedly destroyed a borg Cube.
And name one federation ship besides the NX-59650 that was designed solely for combat engagements. Now that you've done that, do you see what the difference is? The Romulans built an entire fleet of war-birds...whereas, the Federation built ships that were well rounded. And the comparison is not to non-federation ships, it is to federation ships. Relative to other federations ships, it is still quite a formidable and advanced ship, which is my point.
If you want to call it "weak" because it can't stand up to Romulan Warbird's, then I submit to you almost every last one of Starfleet's Vessels as being in the same boat.
The Enterprise was the best of what Starfleet had to offer, at the time. It was the best all around vessel at it's launch.
The fact that you think that the Enterprise D is weak when it was called the "flagship" is absurd, don't you think?
Yeah, I see that. And time and time again, we get more solid "data" on ST than SW. There's just more specs in ST to go by.
I mainly play devil's advocate to strengthen good points and discard incorrect ones. I don't want to be caught off guard by arguing a point in favor of ST that is incorrect because I didn't explore a point well enough made by another pro-ST person. You know how rabid SW fans and ST fans can get.
No. It's because the species is not part of that universe, literally. Also, they are not used in ST vs. SW debates. It is usually technology debates and Empire vs. Starfleet.
The debates should be limited to reasonable comparisons. Technically, SW could be part of the literal ST universe. The timeline just occurred a long time ago in a galaxy far away.
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Apr 3rd, 2009 04:18 PM
