KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Movie Franchises » Star Trek » Star Trek Vs. Star Wars

Star Trek Vs. Star Wars
Started by: Zampanó

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (26): « 1 [2] 3 4 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Robtard
KMC's #1 Rated Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Well, Star Trek has omnipotence, so that has to be limited or else there can be no comparrison. The rest of my post was just trying to narrow down what we'd be debating: an argument about all of the ships ever during ST vs. the Empire, or even Vs. all the ships in SW seems (seemed) too unwieldy to discuss intelligently. Mostly, I didn't want to hear (and still don't, ever, during the entire course of my life) that there would simply be kamikazee attacks at every SW ship and that ST would win simply through numbers.

In any one on one empire vs. empire fight Star Wars will win.


I understand that, as Q could blink and the empire would be gone. But gimping the uber powers of ST away, while allowing the uber power in SW like the Emperor in the EU, isn't a fair compromise. Vader too, as he's even more of a bad-ass in the EU.

Now, as strict ship battle and/or soldier/personnel battle is fair.

I disagree, one thing that SW has which when used properly would be an extremely effective weapon, are the use of the transporter technology. Beaming a squad of armed people directly to the helm or engine(s) room of a ST ship could be fatal, especially a ship currently engaged in combat with another ship.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Last edited by Robtard on Dec 19th, 2008 at 11:58 PM

Old Post Dec 19th, 2008 11:54 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zampanó
The Blind Critic

Gender: Male
Location: Haven

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
I understand that, as Q could blink and the empire would be gone. But gimping the uber powers of ST away, while allowing the uber power in SW like the Emperor in the EU, isn't a fair compromise. Vader too, as he's even more of a bad-ass in the EU.

Fair enough- The emperor isn't usually a combatant, so if we keep the two as non-combatants (able to affect strategy but not combat) it seems fair. When we look at how the empire splintered after the Emperor's death we see that it can't function without him. I am willing to suspend his combat facilities.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard

Now, as strict ship battle and/or soldier/personnel battle is fair.


That was the format I was originally looking for.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard

I disagree, one thing that SW has which when used properly would be an extremely effective weapon, are the use of the transporter technology. Beaming a squad of armed people directly to the helm or engine(s) room of a ST ship could be fatal, especially a ship currently engaged in combat with another ship.

ST's teleporters do have a very good chance of tipping a battle, but the multitude of external forces that make the technology worthless seems to make it a non-factor. Teleporters do not work through shields (especially unfamiliar ones like the Empire's) or through many types of Radiation. The technology itself seems to be unreliable: in many episodes (again, I think- my knowledge of ST is not huge) of TNG the failure of transporters is the crux of the plot.

What the expedition team could hope to accomplish is also questionable: the crew of a SD are all armed: even the technicians that operated the Death Star's Superlaser carried pistols.


__________________

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 01:04 AM
Zampanó is currently offline Click here to Send Zampanó a Private Message Find more posts by Zampanó Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Weaponry
The conventional weaponry of Star Wars outclasses that of Star Trek. I will not debate superweapons in this section- that will be the final part of this post.
Handheld
Phasers: In the hand held form they are startlingly inaccurate- they have no form of sights or guidance system. True proficiency must therefore come only with years (or at least months) of practice. Phaser rifles are much more practical, and have greater applicability in tactical (battle) situations, yet they are not shown to be more powerful than a solid blaster rifle. Phasers are often used within a ship as a defensive tool (look at any of the attempted/successful boardings of Voyager/the Enterprise) yet there is rarely any significant damage to the ship itself. When combat extends to a cargo bay (as it often did during Voyager's cruise) the containers are not shown to be damaged by the stray shots.

-Damage potential: Phasers are shown to be very effective at killing single, unarmored enemies. When set to full power, the phaser has been shown to remove an organic being from existence. (vaporization might be the wrong word- the disappearance of the body has no outward effect on the surroundings.) They have not shown much utility when aimed at metal: the walls and floor of starships are often unaffected by phasers, and storage crates are sufficient cover for an extended firefight. When pitted against Stormtrooper armor there is a possibility that each kill might require multiple shots.


http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Phaser#Sidearm_settings

hand phasers on a high enough setting will turn stormtrooper armour to mush. not just one stormtrooper, either...

just saying...

also, if i can find the phaser power chart i had, ill scan it...


__________________

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured... the first thought forbidden... the first freedom denied – chains us all irrevocably."

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 01:14 AM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
KMC's #1 Rated Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Red Nemesis


ST's teleporters do have a very good chance of tipping a battle, but the multitude of external forces that make the technology worthless seems to make it a non-factor. Teleporters do not work through shields (especially unfamiliar ones like the Empire's) or through many types of Radiation. The technology itself seems to be unreliable: in many episodes (again, I think- my knowledge of ST is not huge) of TNG the failure of transporters is the crux of the plot.

What the expedition team could hope to accomplish is also questionable: the crew of a SD are all armed: even the technicians that operated the Death Star's Superlaser carried pistols. [/B]


Many an episode also had instances of them quickly adjusting their "frequencies" and getting transporting through shields. The Federation was able to do this to the Borg on occasion, though not consistently. So it is possible.

They'd still have the element of a surprise attack. Also, the transporting of explosives is another option, as a Star Destroyer would be severely damages if a photon torpedo detonated in the engine room, no?

Not saying ST would win indefinitely, but your claim of 'SW will always win over ST', just isn't logical.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 01:20 AM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
jaden101
It's Fat Albert

Gender: Male
Location: North Philadelphia

the federations transporters don't work through shields, that's true. they also have added problem (as is stated in several episodes of the next generation) that there is a slight delay in materialisation and being able to move that allows enemies to attack

the borg, on the other hand, have no such problems with their transporter technology


__________________


You come at the King, you best not miss!

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 01:49 AM
jaden101 is currently offline Click here to Send jaden101 a Private Message Find more posts by jaden101 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Rogue Jedi
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: On my way to the Cage

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Don't forget the Galaxy gun. A Star Destroyer that's firing range was [lightyears[/i]. no expression

Though actually I'm not sure if the GG counts here.
Does the Sun Crusher count?


__________________

All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 01:56 AM
Rogue Jedi is currently offline Click here to Send Rogue Jedi a Private Message Find more posts by Rogue Jedi Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Badabing
LiZod

Gender: Male
Location: Isla Nublar

Moderator

Kirk wins this on his own.


__________________



Sig by Rao Kal El

http///www.raptorrules.com

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 02:32 AM
Badabing is currently offline Click here to Send Badabing a Private Message Find more posts by Badabing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
jaden101
It's Fat Albert

Gender: Male
Location: North Philadelphia

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Does the Sun Crusher count?


it does...don't entirely see what use it would be though given that ships in ST have been seen easily outrunning supernova.


__________________


You come at the King, you best not miss!

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 03:20 AM
jaden101 is currently offline Click here to Send jaden101 a Private Message Find more posts by jaden101 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

But Earth or other federation planets'd be vulnerable, due to their crap manuverability..


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 03:25 AM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
KMC's #1 Rated Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But Earth or other federation planets'd be vulnerable, due to their crap manuverability..


This is true, but I'd also like to bring to light the epic-level of idiocy the Empire has. They build a death machine the size of a small moon, yet they leave it so vulnerable that it can be obliterated by a single shot.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 06:07 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
KMC's #1 Rated Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
the federations transporters don't work through shields, that's true. they also have added problem (as is stated in several episodes of the next generation) that there is a slight delay in materialisation and being able to move that allows enemies to attack

the borg, on the other hand, have no such problems with their transporter technology


The shield factor has been countered on more than one occasion, so it isn't necessarily concrete.

Has anyone brought up cloaking, which several ST races use? Definite tactical advantage there for the ST teams.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 06:10 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
jaden101
It's Fat Albert

Gender: Male
Location: North Philadelphia

for the most part, cloaking devices can be tracked...and come SW ships also have cloaking devices (starkiller's in the force unleashed if that's to be taken as canon) although it's not clear whether their cloaks are merely to hide from sensors rather than a visible cloak as well.

only the reman scimitar has had a perfect cloak...and that ship in itself would be more than a match for an entire fleet of star destroyers

it could deploy shields, travel at warp and fire weapons all at the same time...it had 52 disruptor banks, 27 photon torpedo bays and a thaelaron radiation superweapon.


__________________


You come at the King, you best not miss!

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 06:27 PM
jaden101 is currently offline Click here to Send jaden101 a Private Message Find more posts by jaden101 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

cloaking devices can be tracked if you know how.

during the dominion war, even the jem'hadar couldn't stop romulan forces from attacking their bases using stealth, and they use anti-proton scans regularly.


__________________

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured... the first thought forbidden... the first freedom denied – chains us all irrevocably."

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 07:13 PM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Darth Truculent
Truth is written in Blood

Gender: Male
Location: Masyaf

I want to make this clear: I like SW over ST

However, a Defiant class can destroy an SD. How do you want to kill a SD? Gut it's belly. Don't think of the Enterprise-E slugging it out with an SD at long range. SD don't have point-blank defense systems to handle an agile, fast and overgunned ship like a Defiant. SW shields are not that strong. A Defiant would rip through them like a hot knife through butter. A couple of quantum torpedoes would not just penetrate a SD armor, but entire decks would be torn to pieces. Key systems would go offline and surprise - you have a vulnerable SD.


__________________
"Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame . . . whatever the cost"

War Doctor

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 11:16 PM
Darth Truculent is currently offline Click here to Send Darth Truculent a Private Message Find more posts by Darth Truculent Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
jaden101
It's Fat Albert

Gender: Male
Location: North Philadelphia

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Don't think of the Enterprise-E slugging it out with an SD at long range.


and why not?...here's a weapons range image showing levels for a stardestroyer and an ST ship

(please log in to view the image)


__________________


You come at the King, you best not miss!

Old Post Dec 20th, 2008 11:42 PM
jaden101 is currently offline Click here to Send jaden101 a Private Message Find more posts by jaden101 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Darth Truculent
Truth is written in Blood

Gender: Male
Location: Masyaf

A SD has more turbolaser batteries. The Enterprise - E has 12 phaser banks.


__________________
"Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame . . . whatever the cost"

War Doctor

Old Post Dec 21st, 2008 01:09 AM
Darth Truculent is currently offline Click here to Send Darth Truculent a Private Message Find more posts by Darth Truculent Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
KMC's #1 Rated Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

Enterprise has 8 times the range, that aside, the SD loses on stupid names alone, "turbolaser", lame.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Last edited by Robtard on Dec 21st, 2008 at 05:11 PM

Old Post Dec 21st, 2008 05:06 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
KMC's #1 Rated Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
and why not?...here's a weapons range image showing levels for a stardestroyer and an ST ship


Should have known there exist a ST Vs. SW site... I'll have to scope it later.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Dec 21st, 2008 05:15 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
and why not?...here's a weapons range image showing levels for a stardestroyer and an ST ship

(please log in to view the image)


Dont squadrons of TIEs affect/increase that range for the empire..?


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2008 11:28 AM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Elite Hunter
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location:

@Jaden, where did you find that pic?

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2008 11:46 AM
Elite Hunter is currently offline Click here to Send Elite Hunter a Private Message Find more posts by Elite Hunter Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 04:15 AM.
Pages (26): « 1 [2] 3 4 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Movie Franchises » Star Trek » Star Trek Vs. Star Wars

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.