No no, go into detail. I'm interested in what you have to say.
Because if you can connect quantum physics to the astrophysics world and explain how a planet is supposed to move AFTER another ship from the future enters the past and, thereby, creates a parallel universe, you, my friend, would not only explain how to avoid some time paradoxes, you would have also discovered the fabled Grand Unified Theory.
If you have discovered it and you're holding out on us, that's really big d*ck move.
The easy answer is that the writers of the new timeline just write Vulcan as always having been closer to earth and explain it not so much as simply an alternate timeline but an alternate universe just like has been used as a plot device many times in the ST franchise.
The writers haven't said anything about Vulcan being closer to Earth. In fact, it's been stated multiple times that it's just a parallel universe, the same as the mirror universe. Everything's the same up until a certain point, and in the new movie the divergence point is Nero coming back in time. It's simply alternate realities, and in the new one they can travel much faster than in the prime reality.
Obviously they made the ships faster for dramatic effect, but that doesn't change the fact that in order to do so the ships would have to be faster, not the planets closer.
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i agree with this completely. nothing has been said about the initial changes to the prime universe - other than Nero's presents - therefore everything we're speculating now is exactly that - speculation.
I think Abrams expects us to read into it with our vivid imaginations so that he doesn't have to explain every tiny insignificant little detail to those us the new/old star trek fandom, instead we debate it.
this i only partly agree with, i agree the ships were made to look faster for dramatic affect, but i don't think they were actually faster. Although browsing Memory Alpha just would suggest i'm wrong about the distance between Earth and Vulcan - perfectly accepted my defeat.
however i'll still try and answer this question.
as you probably already know significant events that can occur will inevitably create multiple alternative universes that will change according to what happens - e.g. Driving a car down a road, coming up to a T junction whereby multiple events could happen, carry on, turn left, turn right, turn back, stop altogether, have a heart attack and die, turn left but get hit by a lorry coming the other way etc.
now from what i've read about quantum mechanics and time travel is this - no two atoms/molecules can exist in the same space at the same time without repercussions (nero doesn't exist in this time fram therefore it doesn't apply, spock does though). also that - backwards time traveling will alter the inevitable flow of time from the exact moment of time you entered the past regardless of what you do there. now i can't exactly quote equations or formula about the theory of this but i can relay the basis of what i've read and understood.
basic physics teaches - matter cannot be created or destroyed, simply relocated in a different form (dissolve, fuse, oxygenate etc.) or location.
those few things in mind, time traveling back to wherever with a massive ship - in nero's case - would not break this basic physics law, but some might suggest it does, but it does break the quantum physics law about two atoms coexisting. this in mind, the changes would occur from the exact moment he's seen by the USS Kelvin. This can be anything from significant changes to tiny changes. In this case something more happens altering the flow of time once more, in destroying the Kelvin, nero secures that this reality will be majorly different from our "prime" reality.
quantum mechanics suggests that any change to a reality can by anything from someone being a man as opposed to a women to anything as far fetched as time flow seemingly moving backwards for the traveler - thank you red dwarf. so it's not as far fetched as some might think that Vulcan could swing from it's initial orbit around it's star to a completely different solar system to start orbiting that star instead. although, following the events in star trek this might be considered somewhat far fetched.
I never read a justification. I just think it's a lot simpler than tieing yourself up in knots trying to give a physics answer to it.
The upgraded warp engines theory is also a bit dented by the fact that the inner workings of the enterprise shown in the new movie looks far less high-tech than the original series.
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It looks much less high tech, but that does nothing to invalidate the theory. Star Wars ships look pretty darned clunky, yet they were capable of faster intergalactic travel than, say Voyager, which looks much more advanced.
That could be partly because "Warp" is faster that light travel, where as "Hyper Space Travel" is to do with the whole 'Point A - where you are, Point B - desired location' and in order to travel between these points, they converge to make one single point - bad explanation i know, but basically what the ship does in Event Horizon.
I'm not talking the ships appearance. I'm talking about the fact that the inside of the "new" enterprise looked like exceptionally bad plumbing.
And as Cado says...Warp drive and Hyperdrive are completely different principles. Not to mention that transwarp is several factors faster than hyperdrive.
For example
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compared with
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Last edited by jaden101 on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 04:59 PM
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It sounds like you are talking about the ship's interior appearance. If you aren't, then I really don't know what you're talking about.
The hyperdrive vs Voyager might have been a bad example, but my point still stands. Looks alone do not indicate inferior tech (although the interior of the new Enterprises engineering looked spectacularly stupid for a 23rd century ship, IMO).
Based on the information provided by the new movie, how could you come to any conclusion other then the Enterprise is now able to travel much faster than ships have generally been depicted, even up to the mid 24th century?
Edit: I couldn't see your image. Is this the one you had posted?
pic doesn't seem to be showing up still. If you right click Acrosurge's link, click properties, highlight and copy the 'address' URL and copy it into another tab/page/current page...or whatever, should show then...
And in science FICTION less advanced technology appears less advanced. In the case of the new movie, the tech appears no more advanced than that in a modern submarine.
There's no information either way really. It's just a plot hole that we're trying to fill with different explanations. Noone's right or wrong in this case.
There's never any indication that the ships are more advanced because of the original encounter with the Narada. There's no indication that Vulcan is closer to Earth than the OS.
It does have a related plot hole in that the enterprise travels away from Vulcan at warp speed for some time before ejecting Kirk onto the frozen planet. Yet old Spock was able to view the destruction of Vulcan from what appeared to be even closer than real Earth is to the moon. Given that the earth and moon are 1.313 light seconds apart then it throws up another plot hole.
maybe because they were traveling in warp so fast it opened a rift in space so they could see...you know what, i'm gonna give up trying to find reasons for Abrams failures...
it's starting to hurt my brain. lol. he did good with the film, but made some major and detroying bulls ups along the way. we've all seen it, we've mostly tried to give our own explanations to it...but all in all we all share the common knowledge that Abrams didn't think it through properly
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That's the kind of pipe filled room Bruce Willis can have a gun fight in. Or a room I can drive my car into in GTA4 then subsequently get it pinched the wrong way and have it explode while I'm still in it.
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