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Star Trek Vs. Star Wars
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
@Jaden, where did you find that pic?


st-v-sw.net


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2008 05:43 PM
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Zampanó
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I watched 'First Contact' last night. I gotta say, the combat in that looked like it took place at distances far smaller than '200,000 K.' The Defiant was close enough to contemplate 'ramming speed' without worrying that the Cube would simply obliterate their ship before they got close. Ships could be seen disappearing behind the Cube as they circled- if combat took place from such a large distance then they would not have been able to circumnavigate the cube so quickly.


Quick question- is the Dominion a more dangerous force than the Borg? Picard's narration calls the Borg their 'Greatest threat.' It might be nice to know which of the two major threats is more powerful. (Sub discussion/New thread: Borg Vs. Dominion)


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 05:45 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I watched 'First Contact' last night. I gotta say, the combat in that looked like it took place at distances far smaller than '200,000 K.' The Defiant was close enough to contemplate 'ramming speed' without worrying that the Cube would simply obliterate their ship before they got close. Ships could be seen disappearing behind the Cube as they circled- if combat took place from such a large distance then they would not have been able to circumnavigate the cube so quickly.


Quick question- is the Dominion a more dangerous force than the Borg? Picard's narration calls the Borg their 'Greatest threat.' It might be nice to know which of the two major threats is more powerful. (Sub discussion/New thread: Borg Vs. Dominion)


the borg are considered the most dangerous threat in star trek. dominion are close though... species 8472 too...

the federation alliance beat the dominion, after all... voyager hurt them, but being the borg, they'll recover...


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:23 PM
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jaden101
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the dominion have larger forces in number and control the entire gamma quadrant where as the borg only control the inner portions of the delta quadrant with the Kazon controlling the outer areas... but apart from the Bajoran wormhole the dominion have no way to deploy forces in the alpha quadrant...unlike the borg with their transwarp

and the defiant was pretty battered by the borg ship but it's ablative armour would probably have held enough to allow it to ram the cube.

but yes...the battles did happen from smaller distances than 200,000km but often on star trek, vessels have fired standard weapons from extremely far distances accurately


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:31 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I want to make this clear: I like SW over ST

However, a Defiant class can destroy an SD. How do you want to kill a SD? Gut it's belly. Don't think of the Enterprise-E slugging it out with an SD at long range. SD don't have point-blank defense systems to handle an agile, fast and overgunned ship like a Defiant. SW shields are not that strong. A Defiant would rip through them like a hot knife through butter. A couple of quantum torpedoes would not just penetrate a SD armor, but entire decks would be torn to pieces. Key systems would go offline and surprise - you have a vulnerable SD.



The Defiant's soooo small!! it just wuldnt look right if it took down a Star Destroyer!! Lol!

Off topic how wuld the Defiant fair against the Enterprise-E?? which ship has more powerful phasers, shields, and which has more quantum torpedoes?? In First Contact the Enterprise E is called the most "Advanced ship in the fleet".. the fleet includes the defiant.. and they just call the defiant a "Tough LITTLE ship."

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:38 PM
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Darth Truculent
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First to respond to TIE fighters. A starfighters weapons systems just can't stop a ST capital ship. ST shields are just too strong.

Borg vs Dominion:

VERY good fight. Assuming that the Borg doesn't assimilate the Alpha quadrant, it would be a barroom brawl. A standard Borg ship is a Cube. Dominion would believe that maybe 5 to 6 tops battleships would destroy it. But they would run into problems when the Cube's shields adapted to their disruptors and torpedoes. Jem'Hadar crew would scratch their heads in disbelief.

Meanwhile, Borg torpedoes and disruptors would tear through Dominion shields and and destroy their vessels. But more than likely, one ship would be assimilated to asses their technological status. Then Dominion would wage a total war against the Borg. Victor? I don't know because the Borg have trillions of drones and the Dominion can clone trillions of troops and build entire fleets. But, both side would be severely weakened.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:43 PM
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Darth Truculent
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In one episode, their was almost a civil war in the Federation. The Defiant engaged a ship similar in size of the Enterprise. The Defiant beat it up so badly that the ship's captain considered using quantum torpedoes against the Defiant to even the odds. So in short, both ships Enterprise and Defiant would be rendered combat ineffective.

Against an SD? Rapid fire phasers and quantum torpedoes would tear an SD to pieces. Sure it would look ridiculous, but in Episode V when Han made that "attack" run against the SD, why did it's captain raise shields? Point made


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:49 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
First to respond to TIE fighters. A starfighters weapons systems just can't stop a ST capital ship. ST shields are just too strong.

Borg vs Dominion:

VERY good fight. Assuming that the Borg doesn't assimilate the Alpha quadrant, it would be a barroom brawl. A standard Borg ship is a Cube. Dominion would believe that maybe 5 to 6 tops battleships would destroy it. But they would run into problems when the Cube's shields adapted to their disruptors and torpedoes. Jem'Hadar crew would scratch their heads in disbelief.

Meanwhile, Borg torpedoes and disruptors would tear through Dominion shields and and destroy their vessels. But more than likely, one ship would be assimilated to asses their technological status. Then Dominion would wage a total war against the Borg. Victor? I don't know because the Borg have trillions of drones and the Dominion can clone trillions of troops and build entire fleets. But, both side would be severely weakened.


well for a start the dominion don't really use disruptors or torpedos...their weapons are predominantly polaron beam weapons (which the borg use as scanning beams)

the dominion also have the most advanced transporters in that they can transport troops as far as 3 light years

one thing i was thinking about in the st v sw debate...the borg use the line "we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own"...what if they were to assimilate a jedi...would they all, through the hive collective, have force powers?


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:56 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The Defiant's soooo small!! it just wuldnt look right if it took down a Star Destroyer!! Lol!

Off topic how wuld the Defiant fair against the Enterprise-E?? which ship has more powerful phasers, shields, and which has more quantum torpedoes?? In First Contact the Enterprise E is called the most "Advanced ship in the fleet".. the fleet includes the defiant.. and they just call the defiant a "Tough LITTLE ship."


enterprise has more powerful and better phasers. it has more quantum torpedoes. it has armour too, just not as much coverage as the defiant might.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
In one episode, their was almost a civil war in the Federation. The Defiant engaged a ship similar in size of the Enterprise. The Defiant beat it up so badly that the ship's captain considered using quantum torpedoes against the Defiant to even the odds. So in short, both ships Enterprise and Defiant would be rendered combat ineffective.

Against an SD? Rapid fire phasers and quantum torpedoes would tear an SD to pieces. Sure it would look ridiculous, but in Episode V when Han made that "attack" run against the SD, why did it's captain raise shields? Point made


paradise lost part 2. the lakota...

lakota wouldnt match the enterprise e though...


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 06:56 PM
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Zampanó
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quote:
one thing i was thinking about in the st v sw debate...the borg use the line "we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own"...what if they were to assimilate a jedi...would they all, through the hive collective, have force powers?


No. Only that Drone would have Force sensitivity. The EU and even Ep. 1 The Phantom Menace makes it very clear that Force Sensitivity is hereditary. Assimilating a Jedi wouldn't give the rest of the drones Midichlorians.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 08:25 PM
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jaden101
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they may not be able to actively use the force but they would be aware of it's uses through the collective...so if all the other drones are aware of a drones force sensitivity then i see no reason why the force sensitive drone cant be aware of things, via the force, that all the other drones are experiencing.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 09:25 PM
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Robtard
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While I think your reasoning is sound, as the Borg are essentially one being split into billions of parts (drones), the Borg being aware of the Force, or knowing when Jedi/Sith are near won't be a huge tactical advantage, as they'd probably already be aware via use of bio-scans.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2008 10:53 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
While I think your reasoning is sound, as the Borg are essentially one being split into billions of parts (drones), the Borg being aware of the Force, or knowing when Jedi/Sith are near won't be a huge tactical advantage, as they'd probably already be aware via use of bio-scans.


which does bring up another good point...if ST troops were to transport onto an Stardestroyer...do the SW ships even have any internal sensors to detect them?...


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 01:11 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
which does bring up another good point...if ST troops were to transport onto an Stardestroyer...do the SW ships even have any internal sensors to detect them?...


Good point, I don't think they can.

They weren't able to find Solo and the crew when they captured and brought the Falcon onboard. That shit would never fly in ST, unless the person hiding had some cloaking device or way to jam the sensors.

In theory, a well armed ST team transporting into an area without SW personnel could easily arm charges and beam out. Once shields weakened due to combat or they were overridden.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 01:17 AM
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Zampanó
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quote:
Good point, I don't think they can.


They found Anakin/Obi-Wan on the Invisible Hand easily enough. In Han's case I suspect that the news of their escape took a while to drift upward- the troopers certainly kept up with them after they left the garbage chute. Han and Luke were disguised during the first part of the chase- the troopers didn't even know that they were on board. It is very unlikely that the Empire will be so ignorant of a Star Trek boarding party. Once they were found out, they were tracked even through the garbage compressor and as they split up- troopers were dispatched to all of the positions that Luke/Leia, Han/Chewie or Kenobi went to.


When they knew to look for someone (as they would during combat) there was no difficulty at all.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 02:51 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Raoul
paradise lost part 2. the lakota...

lakota wouldnt match the enterprise e though...



I remember that episode. The Lakotas weapons were given a HUGE upgrade.. "Thats wayyyy too much fire power for an excelsior class ship"- Cheif O'Brien.. plus it had quantum torpedoes, so maybe it culd've matched the Enterprise -E.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 01:55 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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Oh man. I drove people up the wall on the Star Wars forum referencing time weaponry and pointing out hilarious openings like your fleets not having weapons on their underside.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 03:31 PM
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jaden101
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i suppose one thing that works against the ST ships that should be considered is that the phasers are generally the secondary weapon leaving the torpedos of what ever variety as the primary weapon and these are finite in number on each ship....where as any kind of primary laser weapon is solely dependant on the power generators of a ship functioning


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 04:08 PM
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starlock
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I have played(& Game mastered for them) both roleplaying systems(i have the rulbooks etc etc),and i have read numerous novels from each,and of course the movies,tv shows etc.....i know its not canon,and this is only my opinon....

Star Trek for the majority


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2008 06:01 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I remember that episode. The Lakotas weapons were given a HUGE upgrade.. "Thats wayyyy too much fire power for an excelsior class ship"- Cheif O'Brien.. plus it had quantum torpedoes, so maybe it culd've matched the Enterprise -E.


the E still has better shields, better armour, more phaser coverage (and just plain better phasers), more torpedo bays, etc...

even if the lakota can get a spread of quantums off early, the E still has it outclassed imo...


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2008 05:22 PM
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