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Star Trek Vs. Star Wars
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Jack Daniels
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beats supershadow...lol


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 06:01 AM
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Sadako of Girth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
force precognition isn't the same as battle precognition....force precognition manifests itself in the form of visions....battle precognition is simply feeling the flow of the force to allow faster reactions and help anticipate what an adversary is going to do

if they could truly see what an opponent could do then a battle between 2 jedi wouldn't end because they would always see what the other was about to do.


Indeed. Provided the see-er isn't too tired to get there in time to defend or something. (Like Qui-gonn when he seemed to be fatigued and "old manned" off out of it against Maul.)

Or that the focus isn't broken at a crucial moment..
(Which, granted, could have also have been Qui-Gonn's problem after he got nose butted by Maul's Sabre hilt.)


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Last edited by Sadako of Girth on Dec 31st, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 12:43 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Wookiepedia has a knack for being inaccurate, or too technical.


too technical?... laughing


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 02:58 PM
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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 05:42 PM
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Jack Daniels
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I love star trek but I love star wars too so I just give credit where its due...but one thing Im wondering about is I thought in another thread it was proven star wars blasters were stronger than star trek phasers???(one of those too technical things..lol) I thought someone mentioned here that star trek shields were better than star wars shields...if star wars blasters are stronger than why is it that without taking out shield generators star wars shields cannot be weakened...and star trek shields can???
I think that all came out right?..lol
if not you all know what Im wondering about...


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 05:44 PM
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Zampanů
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
I love star trek but I love star wars too so I just give credit where its due...but one thing Im wondering about is I thought in another thread it was proven star wars blasters were stronger than star trek phasers???(one of those too technical things..lol) I thought someone mentioned here that star trek shields were better than star wars shields...if star wars blasters are stronger than why is it that without taking out shield generators star wars shields cannot be weakened...and star trek shields can???
I think that all came out right?..lol
if not you all know what Im wondering about...


The thing is that Star Wars ships produce a lot more energy than Star Trek ships do. Their shield systems are therefore powered by much, much more energy than ST are, which makes them less likely to buckle. This is actually one of the more convincing arguments for Star wars.

Ship A (Star Wars) has shields designed to protect from blasts that are more powerful than Star Trek and have never been shown to fail.

Ship B (Star Trek) has shields that are designed for the much less powerful Trek weapons and frequently struggle with only a few hits.

EDIT: About Order 66, The Clones were only following orders- the Jedi danger sense didn't pick anything up because the clones' actions/intentions hadn't changed: they were still following orders.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 06:25 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The thing is that Star Wars ships produce a lot more energy than Star Trek ships do. Their shield systems are therefore powered by much, much more energy than ST are, which makes them less likely to buckle. This is actually one of the more convincing arguments for Star wars.


Maybe I missed this, but where is it stated/proof, "Star Wars ships produce a lot more energy than Star Trek ships"?


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 07:06 PM
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Zampanů
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ICS has peak power production for the Acclamator class capital ship at 2X10^23 watts. Remember that Imperial Star Destroyers were ~9-10 times more powerful than the Acclamator class.


Actually, the only numbers I have for Star Trek look dangerously non-canon. They are from an old Trek 'build your own ship' game and a site that Darth Truculent posted a while ago. Anybody got solid numbers for trek power output?


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 08:15 PM
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Did a google, this is what I found, not sure if it will help you.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Watt


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2008 08:29 PM
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Zampanů
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(I don't have time for a full reply. Maybe tomorrow...)

Copy/pasted:

quote:
* The command headquarters of Daled IV utilized a communication system that originated from a terawatt source, which was necessary to penetrate the planet's atmosphere. According to Commander William T. Riker, "that's more power than our entire ship could generate," meaning that they lacked the ability to respond to the communique. (TNG: "The Dauphin")

* By 2368, the USS Enterprise-D was stated as having a powerful matter/antimatter warp reaction system that had an output that is normally capable of kicking plasma up into the terawatt range.


Contradiction?


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 02:26 AM
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Darth Truculent
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Red I have to say this, but a Defiant or Akira class warship can easily destroy an SD. They are simply too fast an agile and better armed. A Defiant has rapid fire phaser banks and quantum torpedoes. Those would tear through an SD shields like a farmer at harvest time and cause severe damage in one pass. Don't look at the Enterprise - D. Look at the classes that were built during the Dominion War - Sovereign class, Defiant class, Prometheus class, Akira class etc etc. Those were purely built for combat and all can fight and hold their own against a Borg Cube or Sphere.

The Sovereign class in my opinion is going to be the future of Federation ships. Pre-Dominion War, they were mostly exploration vessels with weapons only for defense. But the Sovereign class is the first hybrid - in First Contact, the Enterprise - E was able to engage the Cube and not take severe damage. The Scimitar couldn't destroy her because her shields were incredibly strong and hull. Take into account her weaponry - 12 phaser banks, over 200 quantum torpedoes and a cloaking device. Not only is she equipped with standard warp drive, but also transwarp which is far superior to both warp and hyperdrive. I can truly state, that a Sovereign class would survive in the SW universe.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 02:27 AM
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Sadako of Girth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
Emperor Tiberious ...opposite universe of Kirks...wonder what Emperor Palpatine would be like in an opposite universe?.....hmm sounds like a job for the general fiction writers..lol..or have they done that yet?


LOLZ I like that.

Well he'd have a goatee for starters...


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 10:57 AM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Did a google, this is what I found, not sure if it will help you.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Watt

"The Gamma Erandi Nebula expended 5.34 x 1041 watt of energy"

I skimmed and thought this was the largest energy figure. Basically, this is about ten million times the Sun's yearly energy emission.

http://www.phy.syr.edu/courses/modu...ICY/tables.html


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 02:49 PM
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Zampanů
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Red I have to say this, but a Defiant or Akira class warship can easily destroy an SD.

The numbers would disagree.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

They are simply too fast an agile

SDs deal with fighter swarms. Trek Ships have never shown the agility that a starfighter has. (Their inertial dampeners struggle with only a few g's- look at how the crew is flung around the bridge during combat- while fighters can turn on a dime. The Defiant would never be able to run the Death Star trench- it is larger (an easier target) and less maneuverable (an easier target) than a fighter. They would be easy to hit. SW weaponry would then proceed to remove their shielding (almost instantly) and destroy them. A Defiant would be ruined by a SD. The disparity in firepower (Advantage: SD) is too great to overcome.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

and better armed. A Defiant has rapid fire phaser banks and quantum torpedoes. Those would tear through an SD shields like a farmer at harvest time and cause severe damage in one pass.

The numbers in the Clone wars ICS would disagree again. Nothing that the Trek ships have ever done suggest parity in weapons force.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Don't look at the Enterprise - D. Look at the classes that were built during the Dominion War - Sovereign class, Defiant class, Prometheus class, Akira class etc etc. Those were purely built for combat and all can fight and hold their own against a Borg Cube or Sphere.

I don't know about all of them, but the Defiant was getting tossed by a cube when it had a fleet to back it up. (First Contact)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

The Sovereign class in my opinion is going to be the future of Federation ships. Pre-Dominion War, they were mostly exploration vessels with weapons only for defense. But the Sovereign class is the first hybrid - in First Contact, the Enterprise - E was able to engage the Cube and not take severe damage.

They were able to withstand a few hits. They didn't duke it out with the Cube because it was already damaged. Picard destroyed it with a single volley. We never really saw how a Cube would do against the FC version of the Enterprise. (was that a Sovereign class ship?)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

The Scimitar couldn't destroy her because her shields were incredibly strong and hull. Take into account her weaponry - 12 phaser banks, over 200 quantum torpedoes and a cloaking device. Not only is she equipped with standard warp drive, but also transwarp which is far superior to both warp and hyperdrive. I can truly state, that a Sovereign class would survive in the SW universe.

The shield generation numbers disagree with you. Put simply, none of the beam weapons of the Federation appear to be able to scratch an Imperial shield. (going solely by the numbers.)


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 06:40 PM
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jaden101
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the numbers don't disagree really...a 900MW explosion was enough to slightly damage a runabout.

you said ST shields gave "~6400 MW 'sustainable load." yet Scotty said in one episode that he could get a "few extra gigawatts" out of the shields...we can only presume more modern vessels have vastly higher outputs than you suggest.

there's also the figure that a 4.2GW generator could be used to "power a small phaser bank"...showing that proper phasers have far higher outputs...even handheld phasers give out several MW of energy.

then there's the fact that a galaxy class starship's warp core generates 12.75 billion GW per second

not to mention there's all the other issues of range and weapon types that have been brought up that SW ships couldn't even begin to cope with


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 07:02 PM
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Darth Truculent
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The Defiant wouldn't need to run the trench Red. Borg weaponry is still far superior to anything that the Alpha quadrant has, but the Defiant's armor held after her shields were down. A Defiant class shields could easiy hold against SW point-blank defense systems. Those are designed for starfighters, not ships like the Defiant. Plus ST targeting systems are far more accurate than SW.

Now Red, to my knowledge ST torpedoes are far more and I mean far more powerful than anything SW has. A Proton torpedo couldn't mach the magnitude of a Quantum torpedo. Although, not strong enough to destroy a DS, a couple of well placed Quantum torpedoes would easily destroy a SD.

The Scimitar did batter down the Enterprise - E shields, but her hull integrity was still strong. As I stated, a Sovereign class ship is a hybrid and the Enterprise - E is a Sovereign class ship. Even after ramming the Scimitar, the Enterpise was still capable of sublight travel. Which ship was destroyed? The Scimitar because her weapons were knocked out and a little help from Data. I have yet to see C-3PO destroy a ship.

The Enterprise - E can handle more than a few turbolaser strikes. The shields are just too strong. And the Defiant would get so close to a SD hull, that the main battery wouldn't be able to bear. Rebutal?


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2009 07:36 PM
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Jack Daniels
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
well for a start the dominion don't really use disruptors or torpedos...their weapons are predominantly polaron beam weapons (which the borg use as scanning beams)

the dominion also have the most advanced transporters in that they can transport troops as far as 3 light years

one thing i was thinking about in the st v sw debate...the borg use the line "we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own"...what if they were to assimilate a jedi...would they all, through the hive collective, have force powers?


was just reading through dont think this has been mentioned...the borg have assimilated telepaths and other beings with force similiar abilities Im sure so even if they could I doubt they would utilize those abilites...Im sure they would be more likely to adapt their scans to pick up midichlorians if they thought jedi and their abilities were a big threat to them...the amount of training etc to use the force...wouldnt be on the borg agenda...IMO..till later...hehe


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2009 09:46 PM
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Darth Truculent
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Jack you do have a point there about the Jedi, but the Borg may over look it as a mutation in the genetic sequence. The YV had never encountered Jedi before until their invasion and they killed many of them. But no, I do not believe an assimiliation of a Jedi would matter much. He or she would be just another drone. An admiral like Thrawn would be a much more valuable target. A master tactician like Thrawn would be invaluable. Hope that helps.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2009 10:21 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
"The Gamma Erandi Nebula expended 5.34 x 1041 watt of energy"

I skimmed and thought this was the largest energy figure. Basically, this is about ten million times the Sun's yearly energy emission.

http://www.phy.syr.edu/courses/modu...ICY/tables.html


10 million times, that all? Pft.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2009 11:08 PM
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Jack Daniels
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Okay Ive just been googling....plus Ive seen about every episode and read most ST novels
I know this has been mentioned not sure if they are allowed but the transphasic torpedoes are canon but how they werk r EU....they phase in and out therefore as I understand doesnt matter how powerful the shield they phase out until they reach the center of the target totally not even dealing with shields...1 can destroy a regular cube?? or was it a tactical...have to watch endgame again to know for sure but I think it was a regular cube... but the size of a cube compared to a SD is ??? (I dont know) The ablative armor that ST uses (canon mixed with EU here) are self replicating....next the borg should be able to adapt to blasters as is there any proof they can change frequency on turbo lasers blasters etc....Also do we consider the star trek novels canon since Paramount approves the novels?
If so we ST is ruling.............
Commander Shelby estimated that a cube could remain operative even if like 70% was destroyed. tough muthers....I also wondered if the doomsday machine is big enuff to swallow a death star? its hull is invulnerable....right? wasnt it mentioned there may be more of them?? of course the dreadnought can destroy a small moon...bout the size of a deathstar..lol...now that Ive done all this ST I need some defense for star wars or Queeq may never forgive me...lol...and also as usual Ive been drinkin so dont rip me to shreads to bad Im just tryin here..lol


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2009 01:47 AM
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