I actually find Venom has had some good writing, one of my reasons as to why I was attracted to the character was due to his humour, how he could be so psychotic and yet other times sarcastic/funny.
I think he's had good writing in the past, maybe not so much in the 90's but early appearances, I think he did.
I think he is a great villain, he's unique and he was something different at the time (the whole Symbiote thing.) He's a villain just out to kill Spider-man unlike most other villains who just wanted to rob a bank or rule the world; I also think he added something new he tapped into Peter's fear and the thoughts that because of him (Peter) Venom now exists. Venom himself I think he was interesting not because of his pure hate but the fact he toys around and makes the most out of the moments, yes he is pure hatred, but he'll never stop and he develops a sort of sarcastic demeanor like Spider-man he makes quips usually mocking Spider-man.
Also before he got shrugged into the hero category you could see that conflict of him trying to help people, trying to be a hero yet he would also kill anyone who got in his way/stopping him from killing Spider-man, I think there's a little more their then just hatred, the hatred is the plot device, I mean you also have the whole Symbiote loves Spider-man yet also hates him scenario going on.
Just to state in the comics the Symbiote never made Peter bad, in fact there's never any indication that leads you to believe it's making him evil, that comes from the 90's TAS plot device.
Can you give me some examples of stories which yield such writing?
Well, that I can somewhat agree with because he was new and fresh back then. But it's soured by his weak reasons for hating Spider-Man.
That goes for most of Spidey's villains. They're all unique in their own way. Even the various Goblins are all different in their motivations and backstories.
I'd say that makes him rather boring. Which is why he went past his sell by date in the 90's, and they totally changed his motivation and made him anti-hero.
Suddenly killing Spider-Man was not priority one. In fact he even teamed with Spidey several times.
Lame.
But he really didn't. Brock is his own self creation. Spider-Man was not standing in the way of Brock writing a proper news story about Sin Eater. Brock simply chose to focus his hatred on a stranger he never even met. A guy who did nothing but catch a serial killer.
Spidey was not directly linked to Brock in any way, shape, or form. Brock is a self made person who came across the symbiote by sheer chance.
That's one thing Spider-Man 3 actually did better. They made Peter directly responsible for creating Venom by having Peter humilate Brock, get him fired, date the girl Brock had an obsession for, and the reason Brock was in the church was because of Peter. He was asking god to kill him.
Green Goblin has done all of that. And better, too.
More example of contradictory bad writing. Again is it any wonder Raimi was put off by this?
Yet they never did anything interesting with that angle. They had the opportunity when Brock sold his symbiote, but instead they gave it to the Scorpion
So why did he get rid of it in the bell tower if it was not a bad influence on him?
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Last edited by Doc Ock on Dec 29th, 2008 at 03:02 AM
I can get some scans of some humor/psychotic parts to his personality but it'll take some time.
I can agree the reason for hatred was weak, I think it was more because the script had to be changed, Venom was at first supposed to be a woman etc, but the editor had it changed close to his appearance deadline so that was a rush job.
I think Marvel decided to make him a hero to feature him more in his own series, that and also to give him a justified response to win battles or be in certain situations etc.
Again I think it was more of him being rushed into the series and then everyone wanting to put their own "stamp" on the character when he became popular.
Yeah that was a bad move on their part no question about it.
Because it took him out at night so he was exhausted in the morning that and he didn't like the idea of being permanently stuck to another creature.
Not so much the hatred that's just the excuse for him being psychotic, I like him for humor the psychotic nature and the symbiote/symbiote relationship, as well as a few other things here and there, the design for instance.
Last edited by Neo Darkhalen on Dec 29th, 2008 at 03:53 AM
It's ok, mate, you don't have to put yourself to any trouble. I've read all of Venom's stories thru the years. I know what you're talking about.
His humour, while amusing, isn't anything deep. As for his insanity, well that's the fallback reason isn't it for his silly reasons for hating Spider-Man. "Oh he's crazy. It doesn't have to make sense". Well, when it comes to personal feuds between hero and villain, their basis for the feud most certainly has to make sense. It being based on nothing but a delusional mind makes for a weak feud.
It's probably why they never took the Venom/Spidey feud anywhere interesting.
They could have revamped the origin, or at least if he was going to lose his job, make Spidey have a direct link to it like in Spider-Man 3. As horrible as the movie was, they got that part right.
When Venom was hating on Spidey in that movie, I could believe his hatred for what Peter did to him.
No, they changed it because the stalking Spidey routine got stale. But the character was popular, and they didn't want to axe him. So they changed his motivations and gave him a whole new purpose, even a new character to fight [Carnage].
Addressed this above.
Oh god, was that it? Man, it's been that long since I read it. How lame. No wonder they changed it for the cartoons and the movie.
Reading this now I can understand and see what you're saying, I'm still a fan of the character and I still like him obviously, however I'll be honest in saying you opened up my views on him; I can see why people don't like him.
I think overall the 90's TAS handled Venom's origins better.
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Dec 29th, 2008 01:08 AM
no worries mate, i think your extremely good at forums and stuff.
