I don't try to make sense of Wolverine doing it either.Usually when these things get brought up it's as a point of comparison ala pissing contest when someone brings up soandso beat up this brick, "Yeah? Well so did he!"
I'd say it's more logical, considering Wolverine's bone density is harder than any brick.... but still illogical all the same as he shouldn't have the strength to make that matter.....
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
No, I'm saying it makes slightly more sense for him than someone like Cap, but it's STILL nonsensical... see this is what I mean when I say you don't get it.
And.....
How is that "the thing"?
I have Wolverine's feats, from mid, to the very best in his respect thread because it's a respect thread. It's supposed to be his version of a greatest hits album.... It holds no barring on what I think SHOULD and SHOULDN'T happen...
You're confusing yourself with motive here.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Which is why I asked you a question to verify. So there is no justification for saying I dont get it.
Where do you come off dictating what its nonsensical for a character to do something that hes been doing for 100s of years in a universe that doesnt make any sense in itself?
I could argue that it doesnt make sense for Wolverines HF to take class 100 shots. Hell his HF gets cut by swords and bullets but all of a sudden takes millions of tons of force.
Hell Bullseye can make an aeroplane go through a window withut breaking it...thats impossible.
Hell why is it mutants always tend to have useful powers?
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
When one character has a norm which is brought considerably down to become someone elses feat... It's not that hard to figure out.
It may very well not, but since it's a mutant power there's no real world logic that can be applied to it now can there?
That's practically his power... and yes it too doesn't make sense.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Um its not borught down, thats caps skill, its like a superhuman power.
That same logic could be applied to Caps fighting ability. Skill are often an equivalent to power.
Why can mutants powers be exempt from logic but not the skill of an enhanced super soldier?
It doesnt have to make sense. Caps fighting ability is his power.
If I was as arrogant as you I would now tell you that this is what I mean by you dont get it. Mutants in themselves dont make any sense and all of there powers are useful....realistically alot of mutants would have powers like having a giant foot or having two heads, not eye beams and magnetic powers.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Feb 24th, 2009 at 01:56 AM
It wouldn't matter if Cap's fighting ability was learned or acquired the moment he took the Super Soldier Serum. A flawlessly-executed technique from Cap shouldn't hurt bricks. Anytime Cap has managed to hurt a brick with punches and kicks is PIS, because the brick's power (durability) is being ignored.
Wolverine only hurts bricks because of his claws. Without them, he wouldn't really fare much better than Cap.
Beast is a blue furry animal, and he's miserable because of it. Cyclops hasn't been able to see without some type of technological restraint, and he's been miserable because of it. The Angel was born with wings and felt like a freak for much of his life. The Morlocks are mutants so disfigured that they took to the sewers and live in bands...
Mutant powers aren't necessarily advantageous or practical. Mutant heroes and villains use their powers as best as they can to suit their purposes. A guy with a giant foot and two heads probably wouldn't want to be a superhero, so you're not going to be hearing about him now, are you? Doesn't mean these types of mutants don't exist in comics.
I lost track of the debate. What the hell are we arguing about again?
Oh, yeah.
So we ignore the validity of ESTABLISHED and literal superpowers.. for something that's LIKE a superpower?
You don't see the problem there?
Marvel mutants have powers that go against human physics, biology, and logic... there's nothing we have to draw doubt on them from the real world.
Skill can't be compared to that. Skill is something that actually exists.
Because mutant powers are just that POWERS...
No it doesn't.... but that's not the point here.
Cap's stamina and strength are more his powers, his fighting ability is a skill.
Yeah well, I'm not fluent in nonsense.
What Idol said.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Now the problem is THIS Alf:
You asked me how cap hurts bricks.. and the answer is PIS.. it's no more complicated and no less simple than that.
Cap has fighting skills unmatched, sure. But that doesn't automatically make him empowered to hurt bricks. In order to hurt bricks, Cap needs to hit with more force than their durability can resist. And that's just it.. physically, he simply can't... not just won't but physiologically can't.
In order for them to be hurt, established levels of superhuman durability that have resisted force greater than Cap can exert by hundreds to thousands of times, has to literally be ingored for the sake of Cap damaging them.
Now don't get me wrong, this happens.. and it happens often... But it IS PIS and it's not because of Cap's skill. Or at the least, it's not attributed as such. We've never seen one statement or on panel claim that skill equals brick hurting power.. it's just something that happens.. It happens so often among a select group that we the public have rationalized the reason why to have to do with skill.
And that's just it, it happens often.... and there's a clear difference. There's a difference when skilled MA's in comics hit a brick to when joe shmo does it. There's a clear distinction....
With Wolverine.. there isn't... He's hurt just as many times by shmo as he is by skilled warriors. Likewise he whethers just as many attacks and infact more.
There's no clear distinction there. You don't see people with higher skill level effecting Wolverine greater than people with lower skill. It doesn't work that way, it's a crap shoot.
Unless you would like to argue that Blade's friend was more skilled than the angel of death.
Gorgon putting Logan down on his knee for the duration of one panel does not mean that Logan wasn't hurting from a 15 round fight with Red.
And it certainly doesn't mean Wolverine can be hurt more by people with skill than the same attack ty by something without.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
I agree with this. I think alot of times its the persons skill that gets overlooked, thus PIS is called.
Gamora's skill easily allowed her to take down Thing, but finding a certain weakpoint in the body. It(the ability to apply such an attack) was even touched on in one of the latest Wolvie comics. With that said, Cap or any other stree lvl person hurting or defeating a brick fits well in comic book logic and shouldnt be called PIS imo.
Caps skill is supposed to be a kin to a power that is supposed to hurt characters regardless of their durability. You might as well argue that karnacks skill is PIS. His skill is not defined as a power but a skill.
That doesnt disprove anything I said. I didnt say that mutants powers didnt give you problems. Rich people have problems due to money that doesnt mean that being rich isnt useful.
Actually they do and we have heard of characters like that.
Yes but even ordinary mutants have useful powers eg when Chamber entered a normal mutant bar the people there also posssessed useful powers.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
The fact they are not defined as superhuman powers is irrelevant its the results that count both Bullseyes and Karnacks skills are not defined as powers but the results are superhuman.
If something is like stone it doesnt matter if its actually stone it can be used to do the same things that stone can and can even be better. The fact that skills are 'like' powers does not negate anything.
I think yourself have described Cap as superhuman, it stands to reason that his skill level should be superhuman.
Humans skill levels go against physics, biology and logic as well.
Human skill is like a power as explained earlier.
..and his skill is at a superhuman level.
That is the problem you define it as PIS and your 100% certain your logic is as sound as usual.
Caps skill is superhuman therefore just like a power it should be exempt from logic.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Feb 24th, 2009 at 10:38 AM
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Feb 23rd, 2009 01:21 AM
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
