No no... he IS a good guy. The fact that he doesn't act like one, like Lando, adds contrast and therefore character to these guys. These are basic storytelling concepts. Whoever argues that Han is not a good guy, just doens't get it. And yes, in the words of Ush, THAT'S HOW IT IS!
I never argued he wasn't a good guy. I argued he started as ambivalent.
Han bailing on the Death Star Run is not an "Act." Its a decision. Han likely didn't think "Hey. Maybe if I run away it will freak the osik out of everyone and they'll all think I'm a jerk! He made a decision, he wasn't a good one. He's not a perfect character. That's why he's a character. From that point on, Han is a "good" guy.
Lucas is having second thoughts on his original portrayal of Han in this way, hence the editing of the "Han shot first" scene (is this considered EU now?). Everyone know good guys can't shoot first and Lucas' second guessing on this shows even more how Lucas used grey characters in the OT.
Yes, but the character starts as ambivalent, just like Lando.
If GL was interested in making it clear that these are good guys, Chewie wouldn't have choked Lando to death lol. Chewie is presented as a 100% of the time.
Though, it is important to note that these are non-using characters.
Han and Lando both polarize to the "good" (I should say protagonists') side as the conflict when the Empire escalates. However, this to me is more about redemption. NO ONE like Han's character when he bails on the Death Star run. No one like Lando when he gives Han over to the Empire. The point is "grey" or "dark" actions are redeemable through choice. That is what the entire OT is about. Redemption. Some guys just take longer than others.
And if the force really is BLACK or WHITE, I'd be interested to know if Lucas considered Vader a Jedi when he redeemed himself. That would be a telling argument.
No, the plot of the films is about discovering that they are good guys.
We know Lucas determines your goodness based on your actions. This is the entire premise of the vader story and redemption.
Both Han and Lando made some bad decisions. When we first meet them, we don’t know how to interpret their characters. Han just wants to swindle Skywalker and kenobi out of money, he's involved with shady characters, kills at his convenience, and is incredibly self serving. He doesn't believe in the force, outright dismissing it. Even look at his quotes! "What good is a reward if you ain't around to use it?" "Better her than me" etc etc.
He is not portrayed as a good guy until the end of the Film. He's "on the rebels side" but that doesn't make him a good guy, as Lucas clearly intended to show. Like Vader, he isn't a good guy until he redeems himself from his actions by coming back to aid in the destruction of the death star. From that point on, you he's loyalties and intentions are never doubted in the film. You trust him. You don’t before.
Lando is the same way, with Leia even giving voice to the audiences suspicion "I don't trust Lando!" You trust good guys and your friends, which Han points out he is, but Lando never reaches a friendship with the audience until he makes sacrifices for the characters we are attached too.
This is called character development; our perception of people changes over time. Yes, they both end up being good guys, but they are not immediately portrayed that way.
Sorry, dude. You just don't get it. Yes, it's called character development, but that doesn't mean they weren't already good guys. Again: they were good but still had to get to grips with it, in the sense that eventually tehy are faced with a choice, a fork in the road. The fact that they choose one way or the other proves they already were one or the other.
Being good isn't something you "come to grips with." Lucas consideres goodness to be a default state right? "Balance is lightside." We all start there, and bad choices bring us down. "Once you start down teh dark path...yadda yadda yadda..." (Which of course, Yoda was wrong as he always is.)
Making a bad choice doesn't mean you were good. It doesn't tell us anything about your former state. What is DOES tell us in Lucasland is that you are moving in the wrong direction. Lucas portrays both Han and Lando as bad characters for very brief periods of time. Aside from those brief instances, one apiece, each one has a grey area where you aren't sure if you can trust them or if they really are good guys. These sentiments are voiced in the dialogue of characters, in the acting, in the cinematography. Eventually, both prove their worth to the characters and to the audience and form that point on are portrayed as "good guys."
And if I "just don't get it," there are no reasons for you to continue this conversation. As we've seen, when it comes to Star Wars you're always right, "thats how it is," and I "just dont get it."
Well, come up with some decent arguments. Ther "that's how it is" is based on how Lucas views these films (as simple good vs. bad films, light side is good, dark side is bad, no grey areas, balance=only light side etc). You add a lot of stuff of your own and from EU sources. Give us some decent arguments that cannot be contradicted with canon, clone wars or George Lucas and we'll believe ya.