Gender: Male Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse
Lol, Voy talks like that about everything, in reality he's just a perved out Sheik fan =P and to be fair he's been called a sock approx fifty times since he joined, I'd get pissed too.
__________________
The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead
But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.
The only people who claim Sephiroth is overrated are people who haven't read any of the guides, and played all of the ff7 compilation games while actually paying attention to the dialogue. 90% of the time they just watched the movie and think thats the only thing Sephiroth is capable of, even though it was stated numerous times that he did not exert himself.
Sephiroth beats Link.
Far faster, far stronger, far more deadly power in his arsenal
Hey, here's an idea: Why don't you stop bitching about the already established false possibility of socking, and instead start providing information that will not only get this debate started, but turn it in your favor? If you can't do that, then I have only one thing to quote:
__________________ -"My internet is currently so bad I'm time traveling. Don't worry about it."
-"You have the best problems, Scenario. You really do. haermm"
Gender: Unspecified Location: Where the Sheikah Things Are
I'm sorry you have the misconception of having a vocabulary and speaking with intelligence as taking things seriously. We're all here in good fun and sport, theory bull shit at its best because there is no physical way to just disprove it unlike in Super Smash Bros. Series.
Strider Hiryu is a pretty awesome character and Strider 2 was a really fantastic game and combined 2D and 3D very well, not to mention the highest on the tier list in Marvel vs Capcom 2 after the Gods and who I mained. But once again, what you're saying about my avatar is childish and irrelevant to the debate at hand.
Did you pay attention to the dialogue in the game?
Holy is the antithesis of Meteor, and the only power strong enough to stop it, Bugenhagen stated that when it was unleashed the power could destroy everything, meteor, WEAPON, shinra, even themselves (referring to all of mankind) everything would disappear depending on Holys judgement, of what it judges.
Now this power that is atleast as powerful as Meteor, which is planet scale threatening. Sephiroth stopped this with his willpower/telekineses, at the same time he battled the FF7 party and at one point before the battle lifted all 8 members in the air while torturing them.
It was stated that in AC Sephiroth reached a new height in power, meaning FF7 Sephiroth was his 2nd most powerful form, AC is his most powerful.
In AC he gained power over the entity Jenova itself, all the abilities Jenova has/had now belongs to Sephiroth, some that were shown throughout FF7 were
-Becoming intangeable
-Telekinesis
-Instant teleportation
-Telepathy
-Mind reading
-Regeneration
-Creating plagues
-Shapeshifting
-Powerful strength at unknown limits
-Extreme speed
-Disrupting lifeforce
-Bringing himself back to life with willpower
The fact that he infected the lifestream causing it to become the Negative Lifestream (the lifestream was capable of disintegrating Meteor) in the FF7 game it was stated the lifestream was a source of power, life, energy, magic. With the negative lifestream Sephiroth was capable of creating the 3 remnants (power of life) the 3 remnants were capable of using the negative lifestream as magic (using the shadow creeps)
Sephiroth has complete control over the negative lifestream, and was able to cover the entire skies of midgar with just a gesture. If he wanted, he could've just summoned the NL right on Cloud and killed him there. In one part of the AC movie he TK'd the top of the building right ontop of Cloud.
Also, there are powerful characters in the FF7 world, take Chaos Vincent and Weiss for example, Chaos Vincent was able to quake the entire planet with a single blow, they fight basically blinking around instantly DBZ style, Omega Weapon is capable of turning Earth into a wasteland, Sephiroth was stated to be even above them.
Now some of you still might not agree with me that Sephiroth is powerful, however, the creators of FF7 do.
Some quotes right from the creators themselves:
"Kitase said that Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him."
"Sephiroth is already the strongest in the world so there's no room for growth, and we couldn't possibly see ourselves making a game over type situation where he loses"
"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn't make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."
Even though we have not seen Sephiroth fight at 100% we have enough information to know how powerful he is capable of being.
Last edited by Terryc250 on Mar 13th, 2009 at 05:57 AM
Unlike alot of video game manga, OVA's, Advent Children is canon to the FF7 storyline and is part of the FF7 compilation
(it goes Crisis Core --> FF7 game --> Advent Children --> Dirge of Cerebus)
So they are actual Sephiroth feats. Since we are talking about Sephiroth the character, and not limiting Sephiroth to a specific timeline, I don't see why we cannot use them.
Last edited by Terryc250 on Mar 13th, 2009 at 06:03 AM
Gender: Male Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse
for starters because it's in the rules, and secondly bcause the Link side of the debate will mostly be limited to choose one Link from one game to debate for.
__________________
The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead
But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.
Well then if we go by the game Dirge Of Cerberus(which happens after AC), it still states the events of Advent Children, so Sephiroths feats still stand.
Last edited by Terryc250 on Mar 13th, 2009 at 06:14 AM
Sephiroth doesn't even need to speedblitz Link, as he could simply hold him still with telekinesis and carve him to bits at his leisure. Link gets rape stomped.
And bravo for going against Peach's tyranny and calling out socky and pals, too. I knew it wasn't just me and ArtificialGlory who saw through this tangled web of dirty laundry.
__________________
Last edited by fascistcrusader on Mar 13th, 2009 at 06:35 AM
Very mature, kid. By posting in this thread, you're making this idiocy my business, because you're derailing the damn topic. Learn to follow the rules, junior.
Terry, would you mind posting some videos to confirm some of these canon feats you've mentioned? Considering you seem to know your stuff, I'm sure you can do this with no problems. Meanwhile I'll see what I can do to bring some information for Link.
__________________ -"My internet is currently so bad I'm time traveling. Don't worry about it."
-"You have the best problems, Scenario. You really do. haermm"
an old reference says an "average" granite has a density of about 166.5 lb. per cubic foot, or about 2.6 times what the same volume of water would weigh. If its what commercial stone dealers call a "black granite" the density would likely be much higher."
(please log in to view the image)
K, working with only what we can SEE in this image, let's assume conservatively that Link is slightly above average height, around 6'2" or more seems reasonable, so we'll go with six. this rock is aprox 12208.32 cubic feet in volume. (JUST the visible part in the pic, not including the top half.) Now, if that means the average weight of white granite is 166.5 lbs per cubic foot... *math* 2032685.28 Lbs. That's the weight of JUST the visible portion of the pillar if we assume Link is 6' and the stone is light granite as opposed to black granite.
If a ton is 2000 lbs thats 1016.3 tons. and he THROWS IT.
Now I have to find something on black granite because that's the stone the pillars in OoT closest resemble.
BLACK GRANITE!
Math time. 12208.32 (volume in cubic feet) x 179 (lbs per cubic foot) = 2185289.28 lbs. Just the visible portion. Link. Is. Amazing.. I didn't expect it to be THAT heavy.. wtf.. 1096.64 tons. .
Link like many others who are brought up has his own multiple forms to be able to shape shift and his strength as Goron Link is able to take down a Mechanical-Organic giant, super bull with his body alone. Not to mention the giant slabs he is able to punch away with ease while in the dungeon.
endurance:
Link surviving an explosion he took a point blank radius while still inside the Moon, that eventually disintegrated it (this scene is done in slow motion, rainbow is there for happy ending effects) Now 'Dawn of A New Day' is easily translated into only a few minutes time since with the Moon destroyed the Day would be immediate.
Link fell from that height of the Moon after surviving the explosion and the only counter argument to that has been there is no crater where he landed. Well last I checked if a humanoid is dropped from any height, extreme or not, there is no crater of impact because they are not heavy in weight. The explosion radius is clearly contained with in the Moon and so inertia kicks in and is canceled. So force of impact is all with in that moment of explosion, then Link would simply drop from the point there after.
example: suicide victims of 9/11 did not create craters and fell from greater heights.
another one is that as young Link, by only using the Hylian Shield on his back while crouching alone can withstand the pressure and weight of the King Dodongo. That is only his young body with out fully being physically developed it both situations.
Speed;Agility;Reflex:
Also noted in this fight that Majora uses whip based weapons that are able to travel faster then the speed of sound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_barrier That means those attacks from Majora break the sound barrier, which means they are faster then the speed of sound, and Link can react and dodge them accordingly. Link is faster then the speed of what it takes to break the sound barrier. And thus upon breaking it, and Link showing he can dodge them with ease proves his speed, agility and reflex all in one go. Young Link, Adult Link or any of his forms would all be capable of this respectively.
LINK's abilities:
Link is the hero of time with many abilities.
Link is an exceptional swordsman. His skill with various weapons and items allows him to easily adapt and master each new tool he acquires and employ them in battles. Link shows himself to be an excellent marksman. Including but not restricted to with a Bow and Arrow, Boomerang, Slingshot, HookShot, ClawShot etc. etc.
Link is also very agile, proven as he is able to perform back-flips and somersaults with ease to dodge his enemies' attacks at the very start of his adventures.
Additionally, Link has proven to be very strong physically, as he is usually able to move heavy objects and overpower larger enemies rather easily. Along the fact his power to ride a giant Boar, and his horseback riding skills are impeccable.
In the "Oracle of Seasons", Link is shown to have at least some skills in hand-to-hand combat with the boxing mini-game and in Twilight Princess, he is taught the art of sumo wrestling by the mayor of Ordon Village; proving Link isn't completely defenseless without a weapon.
Link even uses magic in the form of spells. On several occasions he has even been able to shape shift into another form including a fairy, bunny, wolf, Deku, Goron, Zora, a Giant, and a Deity.
Finally, he is endowed with the powers of the Triforce of Courage.
The Legend of Zelda
-Sword Beams: able to fire energy blasts from Sword
-Spin Attack: Charged or otherwise, with or with out magical energy released from it, this attack is a circular based one with critical consequence.
(side note: these attacks are also translated and relate to the other titles in which they appear. Same goes for Sword Plant, Rocket Stab, Lunge and so on)
Legend of Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link
-Shield: (buff) reduces all damage taken by half
-Jump: (buff) Link's jumping abilities are greatly increased
-Life: (buff) Regenerates Health
-Fairy: (buff) Transforms Link into a Fairy
-Fire: (ranged) A ranged fire attack from the Sword
-Reflect: (buff) Nullifies and reflects all attacks
-Spell: (aoe) Transforms all Enemies into a Bot
-Thunder: (aoe) destroys all Enemies.
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Bombos: (aoe) creates a giant explosion
Ether: (aoe) immobilize all enemies
Quake: (aoe) creates an earthquake
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
Excluded since it's a dream, other wise this Link would be unbeatable.
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Din's Fire: (aoe) Creates a dome of intense Fire to disintegrate
Farore's Wind: (buff) Create a Warp Point to teleport at any time
Nayru's Love (buff) Create a protective barrier to reduce damage
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Deku Link: can hover/fly and shoot poison bubbles
Goron Link: unbridled strength & can spin around at extreme velocity
Zora Link: Energy Shield, ranged fins, & unlimited breath under water
Giant Link: need I say more?
Fierce Deity Link: Deity means a god, so yeah =3
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
The Hidden Skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLg5beoBbAU
-Ending Blow
-Shield Attack
-Back Slice
-Helm Splitter
-Mortal Draw
-Jump Strike
-Great Spin
Super Smahs Bros. Series
Final Smash:
The move hits multiple enemies.
SSE:
(side note: being able to side step and dodge Fox's laser is proof he could dodge a bullet. Lets also state that by official translation of Nintendo that Farore's wind can be used as a quick teleportation)
SoulCalibur 2
Illusion Stab Combo, also in Super Smash Bros. Melee.
for the sake of length I have not gone to deeply into each specific Link by assuming all the basics are kept through out each one.
Which feat are you referring to? Also there is another feat he did, he put up a barrier that was able to withstand a metropolis city destroying attack.
Also, just to let you know gameplay moves from different games don't count in debates, because thats not the real incarnation canon Link (referring to Super Smash Bros. Soul Caliber)
But if gameplay moves are allowed then Sephiroth is allowed to use Supernova, Heartless angel, and Pale Horse, so he can basically turn Link into a frog, cast every status effect on him, like silence him from using magic, and bring him to the brink of death with Heartless Angel.
Was that stated as "black granite"? Because in the picture is a zoomed up to the actual black granite, if Black granite was viewed from a distance it would not look like that at all, it would look like (please log in to view the image)
This is black granite NOT zoomed in, but at an average distance, if it were the same distance as the LoZ picture the texture would be even harder to see, and the fact that the room is dark in the picture as well.
But anyway, I don't see Link being able to escape Sephiroths TK, or dodge the Negative Lifestream, or even hit him since Sephiroth has instant teleportation, and Link doesn't have much speed feats.
Also, I'm pretty sure Link isn't capable of having all of those equipment/accessories/weapons/abilities at one time.
Last edited by Terryc250 on Mar 13th, 2009 at 07:26 AM
Gender: Male Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse
The rock almost HAS to be black granite, for one, granite in general is a common building material because it's density lends it great strutural strength. For two, the only other rocks to share it's colour or pattern are generally brittle volcanic rocks that A, cannot be rendered into such a shape, and B, have little structural strength. Lastly that picture of yours shows /polished/ intentionally given a shine for use as counter tops, head stones, ect. To take variables into account those calculations are extremely conservative, IE, any variable was erred on the side of lighter to not overhype Link, so yeah, he really is that strong.
Another point is Seph's TK means little in this fight because Link's plot shielding sword prevents that kind of silliness, otherwise Ganondorf would have done that exact thing to him a whole bunch of games ago. [Ganon has demonstrated extremely high TK capability, magical or otherwise it's rediculously strong.] The sword is stated as something no evil can touch, and Seph is unquestionably the bad guy in this fight. Link is designed to fight people like Seph, hence his nifty sword and such.
So Link is stronger than Seph as well as TK proof. Speed is a point I can argue as well, as Link has been shown to capably dodge super sonic whip cracks with relative ease as a mere child, it's even debated whether or not he had his piece of the triforce during this. [And he survived the destruction of the moon at ground zero, fell to earth and was fine] I'd like to see a non-AC speed feat for Seph.
__________________
The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead
But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.
Any of the feats you proposed. If they have video evidence, I'd like to see them.
It does make sense, but the LoZ team worked hand in hand with the Smash Bros. team iirc, so I figure that wouldn't be a problem. As for Soul Caliber, yeah, good point.
I'm afraid I'll have to leave this point to be argued by someone else, because I don't know enough about LoZ canon to successfully debate it...although...doesn't the Master Sword negate status effects like curses? Could someone else confirm that for me?
A good point, so more likely than not Link wasn't tossing around black granite. Still, that is a massive pillar, and to be able to do anything to it is an incredible display of physical power. In any case, ScreamPaste can argue this field better than I can since he's the one who did all the math for it.
Yeah, that fact comes up in debates a lot, and it's already been challenged with Link's reaction time, which is much, much faster than his overall speed. Also, isn't the Negative Lifestream, while canon, essentially an immortality bringer for Sephiroth? If so, that debunks this entire thread, as it breaks rule number 12 of the Games 'Versus' Forum.
This is most definitely true. Link wouldn't have so many items available at once. However, the list was more a reference to his possible arsenal than what he actually has with him at all times. I don't believe we have even been able to establish which incarnation of Link is being used in this debate.
__________________ -"My internet is currently so bad I'm time traveling. Don't worry about it."
-"You have the best problems, Scenario. You really do. haermm"
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Mar 13th, 2009 05:20 AM
