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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Episode 22- Hostage Crisis


Episode 22- Hostage Crisis
Started by: Nactous

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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Agree.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2009 06:41 AM
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-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.


 

i didn't like the episode that much, personally. not the worst of the series by a long way. i thought the cowboy angle was a bit overdone at the start, but having aurra sing there was nice.

the one thing that annoyed me, though, was how easy it was for them. i find it hard to believe that in a time of war, the senate building and such would be that poorly defended...

in all, it was alright, i guess...


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2009 06:53 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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What's it gonna be? Allright or the worst? Or do the two not contradict each other. wink


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2009 07:05 AM
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-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
What's it gonna be? Allright or the worst? Or do the two not contradict each other. wink


lol. i said it wasnt the worst. some parts were alright. in general though, it wasn't great, imo.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2009 09:00 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
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The usual averageness of SW these days.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2009 07:01 AM
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-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
The usual averageness of SW these days.


pretty much. and its a shame. the series itself shows promise, it just tends to focus in ahsoka WAY too much imo. it's not even that i don't like her, i do, but god. almost every single episode?

we get 1 kit fisto, 1 mace windu, 1 yoda (iirc) episode, etc etc, and yet imo, those episodes tend to be the best ones...

when we got to the ryloth eps, i thought the series was really starting to shift in the right direction, but dang...


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2009 11:03 AM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

Better Ahsoka than another damn Kenobi epsiode. At least Ahsoka has the POTENTIAL to teach us something new about Star Wars (how padawans are trained...WHAT ITS LIKE GROWING UP IN A WAR!)

...but does the series focus on these critical problems?

No.

but you're right, the focus on other Jedi vs. Anakin/Kenobi should be flipped. This was NOT supposed to be the Skywalker story....


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2009 02:07 PM
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-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Better Ahsoka than another damn Kenobi epsiode. At least Ahsoka has the POTENTIAL to teach us something new about Star Wars (how padawans are trained...WHAT ITS LIKE GROWING UP IN A WAR!)

...but does the series focus on these critical problems?

No.

but you're right, the focus on other Jedi vs. Anakin/Kenobi should be flipped. This was NOT supposed to be the Skywalker story....


i like the obi-wan episodes, but i agree, it shouldn't be about just him and anakin... though i could do without as much ahsoka in series 2...


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2009 03:44 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Yeah I agree. One could make a nice trilogy along the lines of Rookies. It kinda shows the potential for makng clones to star and not the usual suspects Anakin and OB1.


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2009 06:26 AM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

All Filoni and Lucas talked about in promoting this series is how is was going to take Star Wars to new places, how is WASN'T the Skywalker story. Anakin was the most heavily featured Character in the entire effing season. It needs to stop.

Innocents was the start of that, even much more than Rookies. Waxer and Boil got the most screen time for any soldier in Star Wars....ever. Funny for a series name "WARS"

My point is this. One could make a nice SERIES along the lines of Rookies. It would actually show the war and star wars from a new perspective. The only new perspective this series seems to offer is from the perspective of a cartoon (which 1. was already done and 2. is a poor jumping off point for a show). There are a few common threads among the best episodes of the series (Ambush, Rookies, Cloak of Darkness, Jedi Crash, Innocents of Ryloth):

All feature clones....HEAVILY.

Thire, Rys, and Jek; Cody, Rex, Heavy; Gree; Bly, Rex; Cody, Waxer, Boil

Hidden Enemy would be in here too if not for the horrible prequel aspect (Cody, Rex, Slick). Hostage Crisis might be the exception.

Now I dont think this is just me liking clones. I think these episodes are fairly popular among the group. I think it just means good writers and storytellers recognize the potential here.

Personally, I'm sick of Jedi being the main characters in Star Wars. its what i love about the Commando novels, it take us OUT of those roles...not completely mind you...but out. This series NEEDS to take us into the military aspect of this war. If nothing else, it needs to take us away form the HOURS of screentime and 33 years of Lucas-thought that we have in the movies. This series is STARRING a brand new padawan, but I (and no one else I have talked to) really feel like I have seen the life or the War form Ahsoka's perspective. I don't feel like I've really felt the war form a clone's perspective. 'Course, I dont really feel like I've seen the war form anyone's perspective, but thats why this series is just a mound of mediocrity and not something I'm generally excited about anymore.

I dont feel like a single episode this season made me go "Wow. I really see things in a new way now." The messages are too cautious. The target age too young. The execution either too blatant or too muddled. I dont feel this series has invested anything in me. It hasn't tried to offer me anything. It doesn't even know what it IS for christ's sake. Fioloni thinks he can do a series with westerns, and romances, and actions, and comedies and that people with an attention span longer than 23 minutes will still find it cohesive. Its not. In fact, I find this the greatest flaw of the series.

Even when this is attempted (take Defenders of Peace, Hidden Enemy) Filoni/Lucas cant take it upon themselves to step outside of their (mutual) box. They present alternative views: The Jedi are not Pacifists, the Jedi are not always morally right. Thats great! I gave great props for both. BUT, by the end of the episode (or plotline) we've just established that the dissenters who have expressed these opinions are irrelevant. Tee Watt Kaa is ignored by the rest of the Lurmens and even submits he was wrong and Slick goes bat chit, blows everything up, then is hauled away as a traitor (and is given an inconstant message). The Jedi are shown as this pristine idol of little warm fuzzy things. This is a goddamn WAR...EVERYTHING done is morally questionable. Thats not addressed. We're still in second grade playing cops and robbers.

I want this series to bash some heads. CHALLENGE OUR PERSPECTIVE! (This is one reason I love the PT) THIS IS A CARTOON! Like Gendy, if fans hate it they can dismiss it. Instead we get this series that is trying to be everything to everyone and thus failing to be anything to anyone (though, in fairness, my good buddie's Kindergartners really love it.) Push some boundaries...beyond those of my patience. DO something. Make a statement. This series is so wishy-washy its aggravating.

Give us clones, a SERIES of Waxer and Boil. Switch the roles of the clones and the Jedi and this series and we'll have a much better template for success.


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2009 04:08 PM
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queeq
Chaos

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Wow, Ordo... I'm impressed.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2009 06:30 AM
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REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

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My only two cents here are that Filoni is banking on the fact that the majority of fans want to see Jedi in action (from what I can tell, and just personally, if it is set in the Prequel era, I want Jedi), and that there is still the right and wrong, black and white aspect that Star Wars has had until the EU came along.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2009 08:19 AM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Wow, Ordo... I'm impressed.


Thanks. All that education has to be good for something lol.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain REX
My only two cents here are that Filoni is banking on the fact that the majority of fans want to see Jedi in action (from what I can tell, and just personally, if it is set in the Prequel era, I want Jedi), and that there is still the right and wrong, black and white aspect that Star Wars has had until the EU came along.


Oh, I wont argue with any of that. Most Star Wars fans are Jedi/Sith fans. What I'm arguing is: If Lucas is trying to expand Star War's fan base, taking a military approach would be more productive than a child approach. When taking the EU to the big stage, fans will be pissed off regardless. However, its much easier to defend a "We took a new perspective and wanted to show a grittier side of Star Wars...what it was like in a war fighting UNDERNEATH these god like figures." instead of "we really wanted to get 5-year olds hooked on Star Wars." I appreciate that they are trying to make the "expand star Wars into animation argument too, but if they were really serious about it, they would have chosen a more avant-garde 2-D style ala Gendy. (not that the animation isn't beautiful, but I personally find it hard to defend as "cutting edge" in any artistic sense.)

I just find series more successful when they go hardcore (Battlestar Galactica and politics...OMG) is a great example, because it builds (well, expands on) a hardcore fanbase (I had to explain to the guys at work that Starbuck is no longer a guy). I find very little about Clone Wars to be hardcore. It may appeal to children now, but in 5 years, will they still talk about and watch the show? Will they buy the "Clone Wars Special Edition 5" 100 DVD pack? At this point I don't see that happening and I think the series falls short of what Star Wars is. It becomes something like Sesame Street that you have childhood nostalgia about, but would never go out of your way to watch.

The black and white is clearly there, and maybe I'm interpreting some of that OT moral totalitarianism as childishness or child-geared messages. Either way, I personally don't like it. The PT (in terms of morality) is Star Wars grown up. That's one of the reasons I love it (despite its very obvious flaws). I think Star Wars would do well to drop the black-and-white constructs that defined a lot of pre-Vietnam sci fi and adopt the more ambiguous morality of post-Cold war and 21st century sci-fi. I feel such an approach would still be able to reach younger and new fans, especially given the format while simultaneously reaching some established fans. The best part is that when those young kids grow up, they'll find more in the series than they ever thought was there and it will KEEP them being fans and wanting to discover more. It makes the show more than entertainment, which is what Star Wars has always been for me.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2009 02:34 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Thanks. All that education has to be good for something lol.



You had an education? Where can I get one? wink


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2009 05:57 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
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Not in the UK!

OOOOOOHHHH BUUUUUURNNNNN

(actually we're all just hicks here)


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2009 01:18 PM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Hence he had to jump of the balcony...erm


Any interpretation? Seriously.

Lets Examine:

Both Boba and Jango were bounty hunters.
They are talented, skilled, and morally ambiguous.

Jango wanted a son.
Mandalorians are family men.

Young Boba new how to fly and demonstrated tactics from an early age. Tactical and combat skill are important Mandalorian values.

Jango and Boba worked as a team.
Father son relationships are important. Children are expected to perform.

Both spoke and understood a non-basic, uncommon language (Kenobi didn't appear to understand it).
Basic is not their primary languange.

Both wear the same style armor, but in different colors with slight modifications.
Armor is an important part of Mandalorian culture, but so is expressing a degree of customization and individuality.

We can't interpret this? Seriously? ALL of what I'm talking about now, 100%, is interpreted from the films. AOTC. ESB. ROTJ. Its simply asinine and ignorant to claim that you can't interpret ANYTHING from two characters that get more screentime and dialogue than major villians (Dooku, etc) in the saga. The 4th largest figure on the AOTC poster is JANGO, behind Skywalker, Amidala, and Kenobi. Mandalorians are important to the films. They get a lot of screentime for sideline characters. Any twit who thinks about movies instead of just watching them can interpret beyond what is spoken in a film.

I wouldn't argue it here if what I was arguing was EU. I've been here for years and I know the rules. I'm arguing because queeq made an ignorant statement, which you repeated.





Do you deny that the floors on the Death Star were shiny? Because no one in the movie comment "Damn! These floors are shiny!"

Likewise, do you deny the Emperor was evil? Or that the Empire was oppressive? That Luke had a somewhat tenuous relationship with Owen and Beru? That the rebels felt a moral right in fighting the Empire?

All these things are interpretations from the films. You and queeq would claim they are EU under your current logic. If you disagree that they are EU, you two should stop being hypocrites and allow me some interpretation under the films. Not on EU sources. On the films.


ALL of this is complete irrelevant idiocy. They are never referred to as Mandalorians. 'Mandalorian' remaions an EU concept. All you are doing there is interpreting the FETTS, not 'Mandalorians'. Quite how you could miss such a simple point is beyond me. You've just wasted everyone's time with that post. And you dare call us ignorant for this? Pathetic.

Now, if you make any more spectacular waste-of-time posts after I have specifically instructed you not to argue the point, you will be warned.


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2009 04:34 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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*Merlin voice from Excalibur* 'You have awoken him."


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2009 04:43 PM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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Wait, are you saying I'm gay? Because he was an awesome Merlin but... you know...

But I honestly shouldn't have to remind any serious fan that the term 'Mandalorian' is nothing to do with the films and all to do with the EU. It's not my fault GL didn't decide to canonize the term in AOTC; that's just the way it is. Whether it is because he didn't care or because he didn't like the idea I don't know, but that he didn't do it is very telling (unlike the term 'Coruscant' and especially 'Sith' which he fully canonised and promptly messed up all EU interpretations of the term, no-one ever expecting there would be only two).

So to use such a false pretence to debate a mod of the section making a ruling... that needs stomping on sharply.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Apr 3rd, 2009 at 04:50 PM

Old Post Apr 3rd, 2009 04:47 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Hey I agree with you. I said something along similar lines, the post was rubbish. I just couldn't remember if the phrase Mandalorian was ever used in the canon novels... if only referring to the armour. Canonwise there are no known Mandalorians. And even deriving character traits for an entire race based on one father and a sons is absolutely ridiculous.

(and the Merlin quote was referring to you suddenly appearing... like the dragon. Ordo was weaving the mist. wink )

"Can't you see all round you, the dragon's breath."

I love that movie.


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2009 04:52 PM
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Nactous
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Ohhhh....Mod Fight!!!!


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2009 06:06 PM
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