You do know that 80% of all targets destroyed were taken out between a combination of laser designation by British SAS combined with bombing from about 50% of other allied planes?
Besides. For context. At the outbreak of the 2nd Iraq war, out of all the 18 allied countries and Iraq, the only country to have the same president/prime minister/leader they had at the outbreak of the 1st gulf war was Iraq. I'd put that in the win column for Saddam.
Strange thing I didn't know until recently about the 1st gulf war though is that Saudi Arabia put in the 2nd most troops against Iraq...ahead of the UK.
Even if the Americans got owned (which they didn't, quite the opposite in fact), any modern force > Middle Earth Weaponary
AK-47s >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swords and shields
So, being defeated by "random terrorists" (which they never were), =/= being beaten by medieval level civilizations. Trust me, modern insurgents would waste Gondor.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
You realize that the U.S. had almost 700k troops in the Gulf War right? So yes all the other countries combined (all 30) may have gotten in the other 50% that the U.S. didn't. But as one country alone we had the most troops and did the most work. And the U.S. can't have the same president since the gulf war ended in 1991 and a president can only serve a term of 8 years total. You sure do like to try and belittle the United States Jaden. And the only reason Saddam stayed in power is because the United States let him. He wouldn't have stayed if we had really wanted otherwise. Also check out the major battles and events that occurred during the Gulf War. The U.S. were in 9 of the major battles...the U.K. only 3. and yes saudi arabia always sends in lots of troops and donates lots of money for humanitarian aid. They're second to the U.S. in both (albeit by a very large number, but they are certainly giving a lot of effort).
Oh and again back on topic...the world as a whole has enough nukes to destroy a planet. Add in nerve gas, supersonic fighters, and everything else and i'm pretty sure all the magic in middle earth wouldn't help. I mean they almost lost to orcs carrying spears and swords despite their magic.
jaden101, do you think that middle earth would win? If so, then please post how they would win. I'm interested in your opinion (no, I'm not using sarcasm)
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
I'm not an expert on Lord of the Rings but i'm pretty sure the army of the dead are essentially invulnerable. Nothing from bullets to nukes would have any effect. So either they would just storm around killing everything until they'd won or they'd be the last things from middle earth standing and the US would use up everything they have trying to destroy them until they gave up. With the army of the dead having no way to travel to the US it would end up in a stalemate (unless they're able to simply march across the ocean)
First of all, what proof do you have that they're invulnerable? And if they are completely invulnerable then that means that they're above Sauron (since he's not) and thus aren't allowed.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
[childnemesis]Well, you never said that it only includes those that are alive so therefore whenever a soldier of middle earth dies in the war vs USA they come back to life and fight for Middle Earth because this is ALL of middle earth HEHEHE and you can't counter that! And you're an idiot hewhoknowsnothing and you suck and I'm just insulting you for no reason!!!!!!!![childnemesis]
LOL but seriously please state why middle earth will win given that you seem to think that they will.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Well they're already dead so they cant be killed. At least not by any conventional means and that's all the US army has. If the US killed Aragorn then there would be no way to let the army of the dead be at peace.
The army is not a single person. Each individual is above Sauron and so they should be allowed. I'm sure the entire army of Rohan is more powerful than Sauron...Should they also not be collectively allowed? Same question applies to every army.
technically the OP didn't say you couldn't have anyone above Sauron. He said everyone including sauron with the ring. The dead army guys would be the only problem but we have plenty of priest and whatnot to exercise the demons (ace ventura reference)! So i'd say U.S. wins by sending in all their priest to get rid of the ghosties then they flood middle earth with nerve gas and w/e before nuking the entire middle earth (probably throw in some carpet bombing runs by some stealth plans just for kicks).
No, if each one of them can't be killed then that means that each individual is above Sauron. Technically then, one ghost > all middle earth =< Sauron.
Yeah I know, I forgot to reference it in the OP. But, in order to prevent a "Eru solos!" thing, anyone above Sauron isn't allowed, but Sauron and anyone below him (in power) IS allowed.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
So basically you're going to find a way to gimp the middle earth side so the US wins whatever anyone says.
Does the legend not state that the only way for them to be "exorcised" is for Isildor or one of his heirs to release them from their curse? I don't think priests would work.
We capture Aragorn and convince him to release them from their curse in exchange for us not nuking Gondor.
But it doesn't matter, because
a) the army of the dead won't fight us unless if they had an incentive to
b) the rest of middle earth even with Sauron gets pwned in a zero casualty win for the USA
c) they aren't allowed anyway
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
They aren't allowed because they'd mean that the US would lose...That's the only reason you're making. Every time someone puts an argument forward that means middle earth would stand a chance, you change the rules to gimp them.
You can even tell it's the only outcome you'll accept from the 1st word of your post "We" meaning you're siding with the US and the fact that you're the thread starter means you can constantly change who is and isn't allowed to fight simply to achieve the outcome you want.
How did I change the rules. BEFORE you talked about the army of the dead, I stated that only those at or below Sauron's level are allowed. Try and read before accusing people.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Gender: Male Location: Cape Cod Massachusetts/United State
The US wins.
If you allow dragons and all the mythical beings from Middle Earth, they would do some damage, but still lose (with the possible exception of the undead army, which, conveniently, has now been disallowed).
Personally, based on your reasoning, I think the undead army should be allowed. Each individual undead soldier is no where near as powerful as Sauron. As an army, sure, but in small numbers, no. Therefore, they are not as powerful and should be included.
Furthermore, to say that only beings below Sauron are allowed because that would allow Eru is just not sound. Eru is the equivalent of the monotheistic christian god of our world, which means if he steps into the picture, so does our christian god, which would end the war with neither side winning.
Besides, why limit one side without limiting the other. If they can't have any being above Sauron, why is the US still allowed Nukes? As long as nukes are on the table, Middle Earth can't win. Admittedly, without them, they don't stand much of a chance, but they shouldn't even be on the table to begin with.
Putting that aside, short of the undead army, there is simply no way Middle Earth can win. Even if they had more dragons than they had in all the history of Middle Earth, they just don't have the equipment/magic to deal with modern air strikes, bombs, and weapons.
The US wins, unless Tom Bombadil is allowed, then he solos.
So when someone takes armies from other time frames in middle earth other than the lord of the rings setting you change your mind again to
thus putting another limit on what middle earth can call upon.
So then I mention that army of the dead and you make up some nonsense about them not being allowed even though your original post clearly stated "all the armies plus Sauron"
I know that I opened wrong, and I didn't deny that. I said that I stated the rule of no one above Sauron BEFORE (not necessarily in the OP) you posted the army of the dead thing.
So if someone says "oh Roman Empire vs Russia who wins" would it be fair for someone in favor of Rome to say "oh well Roman Empire also gets all of the soldiers that it ever had in it's history" and then "oh you never specified that it's only from one time in history"? And if you really have a problem with that, then fine: this is all of middle earth in history except for anyone above Sauron. USA still wins, and if you think otherwise then please explain how.
Ummm...show me where I said that I claimed to have stated the rule IN THE OP.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
The Army of the Dead is not above Sauron in the LotR innate power level scheme. At all: Sauron is a fallen Miar (or elf?) second only to Morgoth in terms of power. He was second in command of evil at evil's height. The Army is just a bunch of dead guys.
If they said 'all of the mediterranean cultures and mythological pantheons against russia' and then added 'oh wait no majik users and you only get the weakest nations' then it would look like you had an agenda. That's a problem.
This means that the people of Middle Earth have the magic of Numenor and the first age, they have more people than the US has bullets and they have Wizards. This is within reach, and a open military confrontation in which nukes are ignored (for whatever reason- maybe the US wants to keep Middle Earth for itself) they have a good chance for victory.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 28th, 2009 10:41 PM
