Well that makes more sense then. Though I still consider it to be a Deus ex Machina Act since passing an act can't just end organized crime like that and even if it did, there would still be tons of crime around (as I said before, unorganized crime can be even more chaotic than organized crime; especially with Gotham's large number of criminals).
I'm not picking apart TDKR. Contradicting and ignoring most of the messages and themes established in the first two movies (which is what TDKR does) are valid criticisms of the film.
He said I'm picking apart TDKR and that TDK can be picked apart too. I responded saying that I am not picking apart TDKR but that the points I'm bringing up are all valid criticisms.
I never said BB and TDK don't have their faults. Every movie has its faults. However, TDK never contradicted anything from BB and BB couldn't have contradicted anything because there was no movie that came before it. TDKR contradicts and ignores MAJOR messages and themes established in BB and TDK. I still haven't seen TDKR yet. My point is that although TDKR might be a good movie, it fails as a sequel. But TDK is both a good movie and a good sequel.
So you came to these ideas just by reading what others wrote? I agree with the point, but not sure why you would read so much about the movie without actually watching it yet.
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Greg Oden: The future of the Blazers. The future of the NBA.
Yup that is what he's doing. I just saw it again yesterday and it was even better the 2nd time around. IMO it doesn't contradict anything. I just think the other guy is reading too much into TDK dialogue. He should just go see the movie and judge for himself. But since he has already kind of spoilt it for himself he will probably really hate it anyway!
I didn't read into the movie much. My friends spoiled it for me. They didn't immediately reveal these stuff to me - they just told me a minor spoiler every day and by the last week's weekend, I knew a bit about Batman retiring and the Dent Act.
Saw the movie last night. It's exactly what I expected it to be. It's a good, solid, and enjoyable movie. Not as good as the first 2 films IMO but still a very well done movie. But it's not a good sequel and not a good Batman movie IMO. I know many people will disagree with me. The biggest flaw the movie has as a sequel is that it contradicts most of the messages and themes from BB and TDK. I thought they contradicted themselves big time with having Bruce quit as Batman for 8 years but there is SO much more than that that's contradicted. Especially towards the end. The movie also has some plot holes here and there.
And that ending...just...that ending is so bad...SO bad...I won't spoil it for those that haven't seen it but I'll say this: Not only does the ending completely contradict so many messages and themes from BB/TDK but it also completely flies in the face of the essence of Batman.
So overall for me, good movie but also a disappointment.
Last edited by spidermanrocks on Jul 30th, 2012 at 08:12 PM
I loved the ending. Does anyone think they will continue the saga? I know Nolan won't be back, but that hasn't stopped Hollywood from continuing things.
No, I don't think they will continue it because Nolan is staying on as a consultant and he won't want others to mess with his version. I think part of the arrangement with Nolan to stay on in this role is that they will reboot it so that it is unrelated. Nolan also stated that whoever takes over should stick to their own vision because re-inventing Batman is what keeps him going in the comics, plus there are inherent problems with trying to match somebody's style that is not your own. It just comes across as a cheap knock off.
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Greg Oden: The future of the Blazers. The future of the NBA.
IF this movie fails like this for you then how can you still say it's a good solid & enjoyable movie?
FYI there are pretty much plot holes in every movie.
Because it IS a good, solid, and enjoyable movie. There are two problems with the ending:
1) It contradicts a lot of the main messages of BB and TDK, especially the ones in BB.
2) It completely flies in the essence of Batman.
If TDKR wasn't a sequel and an adaptation, the ending would be fine. It goes back to what I said before. It's good as a stand-alone movie but it's not a good sequel and not a good Batman movie not just because of the ending but the ending is a major factor.
A minor issue I came across was that Batman was consulting with both Catwoman and Robin on a plan, but then why does Catwoman open up a tunnel that nobody knows to go to, including Robin with that bus full of kids?
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Greg Oden: The future of the Blazers. The future of the NBA.
Finally saw it tonight, so now I can come in here and discuss.
Very big and exciting, and Anne Hathaway may have been the best surprise; we have Selina Kyle as she is represented in the comics at last. I recognize story points from The Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, The Cult, sprinkled in here to compliment the classic Bane arc.
And yet...of the three films, it feels like Number 3 to me. More intellectually satisfying than emotional.
I won't get into the whole raging debate of Bruce's retirement, how long it's lasted and how he's been moping around the house in depression. I accept that for the Dent bill to have stuck - to keep the huge number of criminals in jail - he had to stop; perhaps not right away, but he came to believe he did. I take the opposite view that he had to keep going to stop the crazies like Joker that were rising up to challenge him; they took the direction that was seen in publications like The Dark Knight Returns, that perhaps the crazies come up because he is there, escalating things. So that's another reason.
However, [Spoilers ahead]
(1) Anyone think it was strange that Alfred would abandon him like that, in a bid to get him to not come back as Batman? It means he's missing from the end of the first act to the closing scenes.
(2) How much dialogue did people not make out because of Bane's mask, or because of the overwhelming music? I wonder if people got the reasons why Bane wears the mask, who gave it to him and what kind of gas he is inhaling.
(3) Everything is built to be this huge collision of wills between Bane & Batman - only for one climatic twist too many, as Miranda Tate is in fact Talia Al Ghul (as was earlier speculated) and is the true mastermind of it all, with Bane really being just an enforcer. Feels like he & the whole showdown between him & Batman got cheapened as a result. Then he goes out in an unexpected way, like that...
It's pretty great, but not the bullseye The Dark Knight was, or Avengers this year. I came out of that one in May on fire with energy; this one, I shrugged and left the theatre.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
^ Had a similar reaction. I understood all the dialogue though. Loved Bane's voice. The more I thought about it, the less I feel like Bane was weakened by Talia. I still wish Talia was not in it, but I started viewing Talia as the President figure of the LOS (including the person with the button) while Bane was the military general. Even after Talia left, Bane was still going to kill Batman rather than having him wait for the boom as Talia wanted.
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Greg Oden: The future of the Blazers. The future of the NBA.
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Jul 26th, 2012 07:25 PM
