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Batman 3 Discussion Thread
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ares834
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The act doesn't keep them in forever just gives them no chance of parole.


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2012 07:25 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spidermanrocks
The problem is that the Nolanverse is supposed to be more realistic than the DC universe in the comics and an act like that is not realistic at all.

No, they couldn't have blamed the Joker for Harvey's murders because they have evidence the Joker was nowhere around while the killings took place. Plus, they already knew Gordon was being held captive by someone and the Joker was already caught. Also if they said Harvey committed suicide, the Joker would have won because it would have proven his point - that any hero can easily snap due to an incident and just lose his will and fall (except for Batman - which was the whole POINT of the movie). The public believing Harvey committed suicide would have destroyed their hope. Them believing Harvey died as the strong DA he originally was wouldn't have.


My point is if you want u can still pick apart TDK if u want to


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Old Post Jul 28th, 2012 12:55 AM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
What I think might work quite nicely, would be Talia Al Ghul as the head of the League of Shadows and Bane as Ubu. Could work out, maybe in a sort of Contagion/Legacy fashion.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I was more picturing him working for her, like he worked for her in Batman: Legacy.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I am sure the Nolan's will surprise and excite us. But at the moment I would tell them to make Talia Al Ghul head of the league of shadows, while Bane would be an enforcer and maybe personal guard of Talia (you could even make a love storyline between them). On top of that I might have the Riddler in it as private investigator with some insane tendencies. That would be a basic set up I think would be alright.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
I still maintain that Bane and Talia would make very good and fitting villains.


Just sayin'


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Old Post Jul 28th, 2012 01:01 PM
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spidermanrocks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
The act doesn't keep them in forever just gives them no chance of parole.


Well that makes more sense then. Though I still consider it to be a Deus ex Machina Act since passing an act can't just end organized crime like that and even if it did, there would still be tons of crime around (as I said before, unorganized crime can be even more chaotic than organized crime; especially with Gotham's large number of criminals).


quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthmaul1
My point is if you want u can still pick apart TDK if u want to


I'm not picking apart TDKR. Contradicting and ignoring most of the messages and themes established in the first two movies (which is what TDKR does) are valid criticisms of the film.

Old Post Jul 28th, 2012 04:53 PM
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-Pr-
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he said TDK, not TDKR.

Which is true. All three movies have their faults.


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Old Post Jul 28th, 2012 08:25 PM
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spidermanrocks
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He said I'm picking apart TDKR and that TDK can be picked apart too. I responded saying that I am not picking apart TDKR but that the points I'm bringing up are all valid criticisms.

I never said BB and TDK don't have their faults. Every movie has its faults. However, TDK never contradicted anything from BB and BB couldn't have contradicted anything because there was no movie that came before it. TDKR contradicts and ignores MAJOR messages and themes established in BB and TDK. I still haven't seen TDKR yet. My point is that although TDKR might be a good movie, it fails as a sequel. But TDK is both a good movie and a good sequel.

Old Post Jul 28th, 2012 09:15 PM
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Myth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spidermanrocks
He said I'm picking apart TDKR and that TDK can be picked apart too. I responded saying that I am not picking apart TDKR but that the points I'm bringing up are all valid criticisms.

I never said BB and TDK don't have their faults. Every movie has its faults. However, TDK never contradicted anything from BB and BB couldn't have contradicted anything because there was no movie that came before it. TDKR contradicts and ignores MAJOR messages and themes established in BB and TDK. I still haven't seen TDKR yet. My point is that although TDKR might be a good movie, it fails as a sequel. But TDK is both a good movie and a good sequel.


So you came to these ideas just by reading what others wrote? I agree with the point, but not sure why you would read so much about the movie without actually watching it yet.


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Old Post Jul 28th, 2012 10:11 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Myth
So you came to these ideas just by reading what others wrote? I agree with the point, but not sure why you would read so much about the movie without actually watching it yet.


Yup that is what he's doing. I just saw it again yesterday and it was even better the 2nd time around. IMO it doesn't contradict anything. I just think the other guy is reading too much into TDK dialogue. He should just go see the movie and judge for himself. But since he has already kind of spoilt it for himself he will probably really hate it anyway!


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Old Post Jul 29th, 2012 04:23 PM
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spidermanrocks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Myth
So you came to these ideas just by reading what others wrote? I agree with the point, but not sure why you would read so much about the movie without actually watching it yet.


I didn't read into the movie much. My friends spoiled it for me. They didn't immediately reveal these stuff to me - they just told me a minor spoiler every day and by the last week's weekend, I knew a bit about Batman retiring and the Dent Act.

Old Post Jul 30th, 2012 08:01 PM
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Saw the movie last night. It's exactly what I expected it to be. It's a good, solid, and enjoyable movie. Not as good as the first 2 films IMO but still a very well done movie. But it's not a good sequel and not a good Batman movie IMO. I know many people will disagree with me. The biggest flaw the movie has as a sequel is that it contradicts most of the messages and themes from BB and TDK. I thought they contradicted themselves big time with having Bruce quit as Batman for 8 years but there is SO much more than that that's contradicted. Especially towards the end. The movie also has some plot holes here and there.

And that ending...just...that ending is so bad...SO bad...I won't spoil it for those that haven't seen it but I'll say this: Not only does the ending completely contradict so many messages and themes from BB/TDK but it also completely flies in the face of the essence of Batman.

So overall for me, good movie but also a disappointment.

Last edited by spidermanrocks on Jul 30th, 2012 at 08:12 PM

Old Post Jul 30th, 2012 08:07 PM
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Zack M
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I loved the ending. Does anyone think they will continue the saga? I know Nolan won't be back, but that hasn't stopped Hollywood from continuing things.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2012 10:13 PM
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Myth
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No, I don't think they will continue it because Nolan is staying on as a consultant and he won't want others to mess with his version. I think part of the arrangement with Nolan to stay on in this role is that they will reboot it so that it is unrelated. Nolan also stated that whoever takes over should stick to their own vision because re-inventing Batman is what keeps him going in the comics, plus there are inherent problems with trying to match somebody's style that is not your own. It just comes across as a cheap knock off.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2012 12:26 AM
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Darth Thor
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^ It was confirmed a couple of weeks ago hat Nolan's NOT staying on.

Old Post Jul 31st, 2012 12:02 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spidermanrocks
Saw the movie last night. It's exactly what I expected it to be. It's a good, solid, and enjoyable movie. Not as good as the first 2 films IMO but still a very well done movie. But it's not a good sequel and not a good Batman movie IMO. I know many people will disagree with me. The biggest flaw the movie has as a sequel is that it contradicts most of the messages and themes from BB and TDK. I thought they contradicted themselves big time with having Bruce quit as Batman for 8 years but there is SO much more than that that's contradicted. Especially towards the end. The movie also has some plot holes here and there.

And that ending...just...that ending is so bad...SO bad...I won't spoil it for those that haven't seen it but I'll say this: Not only does the ending completely contradict so many messages and themes from BB/TDK but it also completely flies in the face of the essence of Batman.

So overall for me, good movie but also a disappointment.


You seem a bit contradictive yourself. smile

quote: (post)
[i]It's a good, solid, and enjoyable movie. Not as good as the first 2 films IMO but still a very well done movie. But it's not a good sequel and not a good Batman movie IMO.
that ending...just...that ending is so bad...SO bad...I won't spoil it for those that haven't seen it but I'll say this: Not only does the ending completely contradict so many messages and themes from BB/TDK but it also completely flies in the face of the essence of Batman.
[/B]

IF this movie fails like this for you then how can you still say it's a good solid & enjoyable movie?
FYI there are pretty much plot holes in every movie.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2012 06:53 PM
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spidermanrocks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthmaul1
You seem a bit contradictive yourself. smile


IF this movie fails like this for you then how can you still say it's a good solid & enjoyable movie?
FYI there are pretty much plot holes in every movie.


Because it IS a good, solid, and enjoyable movie. There are two problems with the ending:
1) It contradicts a lot of the main messages of BB and TDK, especially the ones in BB.
2) It completely flies in the essence of Batman.


If TDKR wasn't a sequel and an adaptation, the ending would be fine. It goes back to what I said before. It's good as a stand-alone movie but it's not a good sequel and not a good Batman movie not just because of the ending but the ending is a major factor.

Old Post Jul 31st, 2012 07:53 PM
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Myth
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A minor issue I came across was that Batman was consulting with both Catwoman and Robin on a plan, but then why does Catwoman open up a tunnel that nobody knows to go to, including Robin with that bus full of kids?


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2012 08:19 PM
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Newjak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Myth
A minor issue I came across was that Batman was consulting with both Catwoman and Robin on a plan, but then why does Catwoman open up a tunnel that nobody knows to go to, including Robin with that bus full of kids?
Actually Robin did know about the tunnel. When he's rounding up kids to go alert everyone he tells them to either go for bridge or the tunnel.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2012 01:37 AM
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Myth
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Then why did he take the bus full of kids to the bridge rather than the tunnel?


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2012 03:34 AM
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roughrider
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Finally saw it tonight, so now I can come in here and discuss.

Very big and exciting, and Anne Hathaway may have been the best surprise; we have Selina Kyle as she is represented in the comics at last. I recognize story points from The Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, The Cult, sprinkled in here to compliment the classic Bane arc.

And yet...of the three films, it feels like Number 3 to me. More intellectually satisfying than emotional.

I won't get into the whole raging debate of Bruce's retirement, how long it's lasted and how he's been moping around the house in depression. I accept that for the Dent bill to have stuck - to keep the huge number of criminals in jail - he had to stop; perhaps not right away, but he came to believe he did. I take the opposite view that he had to keep going to stop the crazies like Joker that were rising up to challenge him; they took the direction that was seen in publications like The Dark Knight Returns, that perhaps the crazies come up because he is there, escalating things. So that's another reason.

However, [Spoilers ahead]

(1) Anyone think it was strange that Alfred would abandon him like that, in a bid to get him to not come back as Batman? It means he's missing from the end of the first act to the closing scenes.

(2) How much dialogue did people not make out because of Bane's mask, or because of the overwhelming music? I wonder if people got the reasons why Bane wears the mask, who gave it to him and what kind of gas he is inhaling.

(3) Everything is built to be this huge collision of wills between Bane & Batman - only for one climatic twist too many, as Miranda Tate is in fact Talia Al Ghul (as was earlier speculated) and is the true mastermind of it all, with Bane really being just an enforcer. Feels like he & the whole showdown between him & Batman got cheapened as a result. Then he goes out in an unexpected way, like that... erm

It's pretty great, but not the bullseye The Dark Knight was, or Avengers this year. I came out of that one in May on fire with energy; this one, I shrugged and left the theatre.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2012 04:48 AM
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Myth
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^ Had a similar reaction. I understood all the dialogue though. Loved Bane's voice. The more I thought about it, the less I feel like Bane was weakened by Talia. I still wish Talia was not in it, but I started viewing Talia as the President figure of the LOS (including the person with the button) while Bane was the military general. Even after Talia left, Bane was still going to kill Batman rather than having him wait for the boom as Talia wanted.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2012 08:05 AM
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