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Who can say, without a doubt, that I am not a dream?
Started by: allofyousuckkk

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inimalist
Circle A

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Location: Canada

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
With power comes corruption.


meh, corruption is really only relative to whichever position is privileged as good. In this case, ignorance apparently.


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 04:22 PM
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Bardock42
Marius-esque

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And where does the dark side fit into all this?


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Bardock42 is a whimpering pussy now who lost his flare to debate vigorously and just spouts senseless and thinly veiled puns here and there. You nazi pr*ck. Get your balls back from whoever you sold them to, you fat f*ck. What happened to the manly, chubby German big mouth we once knew, who'd flatten ignorance with a solid argument? Now it's like Andy Dick meets John Candy. You hybrid beefcake. Suck my c*ck

- valid criticism by "Mammon"

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 04:23 PM
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Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
meh, corruption is really only relative to whichever position is privileged as good. In this case, ignorance apparently.


That creates an interesting circle.


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 04:34 PM
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inimalist
Circle A

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Canada

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
And where does the dark side fit into all this?


to push the analogy, education

unless you want to go with the veiled sexual reference about fitting the "dark" in somewhere...

Though, where was post-modernism in Star Wars?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That creates an interesting circle.


I don't see the circle...

evil people gain power and intelligence, good people stay dumb and weak?


__________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 04:41 PM
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Shakyamunison
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Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
to push the analogy, education

unless you want to go with the veiled sexual reference about fitting the "dark" in somewhere...

Though, where was post-modernism in Star Wars?



I don't see the circle...

evil people gain power and intelligence, good people stay dumb and weak?


No. All people are both good and evil.

Power allows people to follow an evil path. This becomes apparent to the common people who then do not trust the powerful. In turn they begin to truth the people out of power, and then replace the corrupted people in power with the non-corrupt people. In time these new people become corrupt, and the cycle begins again.

Just look at the French revolution.


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 04:49 PM
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inimalist
Circle A

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Location: Canada

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. All people are both good and evil.

Power allows people to follow an evil path. This becomes apparent to the common people who then do not trust the powerful. In turn they begin to truth the people out of power, and then replace the corrupted people in power with the non-corrupt people. In time these new people become corrupt, and the cycle begins again.


I get you

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just look at the French revolution.


A power vacuum was filled by those most willing to do the most barbaric things?


__________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 04:52 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. All people are both good and evil.

Power allows people to follow an evil path. This becomes apparent to the common people who then do not trust the powerful. In turn they begin to truth the people out of power, and then replace the corrupted people in power with the non-corrupt people. In time these new people become corrupt, and the cycle begins again.


Those without power can't be corrupt or evil?


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 05:14 PM
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inimalist
Circle A

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Location: Canada

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Those without power can't be corrupt or evil?


thats my thought on his remark about the French revolution

all revolutions play out differently, but I suspect that it is corrupt people who are able to best exploit a power vacuum for their own ends.


__________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 05:16 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Those without power can't be corrupt or evil?


I was playing with the ball I was given.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
meh, corruption is really only relative to whichever position is privileged as good. In this case, ignorance apparently.


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2009 05:31 PM
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Martian_mind
telepathy+debates+=Pwned

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
lol, I mean, I guess "who am I to question anyone", but I always figured people spent their time posting in and reading the forum because they wanted some back and forth over ideas.

Its disheartening to see someone just come back with "so there, I'm going to put my fingers in my ears"



I didn't really see the back and forth we could have.I'm not going to sit here and try to argue what a consciosness is with you,because frankly the ignorance you've been discussing means i already have my own definition,and as my own personal philosophy shows I'll stick by my definition,rather then deal with a bunch of hypotheticals that would fail to dissuade me from belives,because they'd have to make me doubt my own consciousness,and thus all of existence,which frankly i feel is beyond you.

Have at it,if you want.


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 12:51 AM
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Deja~vu
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The French were forced to get back in sink with the rest of the world to get back in line with what works.

I just love the story of the French Revolution. They looked at the New World and tried it for themselves, but didn't do it quite right and it back fired on em. They became evil, blood thirsty and revelers. They changed the laws and even went so far as to change the calender because it was based on religion and the institutions that they hated., But they did make a point. Pinned up atrocities made a very good point.


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 02:10 AM
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inimalist
Circle A

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Canada

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I didn't really see the back and forth we could have.I'm not going to sit here and try to argue what a consciosness is with you,because frankly the ignorance you've been discussing means i already have my own definition,and as my own personal philosophy shows I'll stick by my definition,rather then deal with a bunch of hypotheticals that would fail to dissuade me from belives,because they'd have to make me doubt my own consciousness,and thus all of existence,which frankly i feel is beyond you.

Have at it,if you want.


but why would you post your ideas in a forum if you didn't want to discuss them?

EDIT:

also, http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/ge...i=9780192805850


__________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by inimalist on Apr 24th, 2009 at 02:49 AM

Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 02:46 AM
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Martian_mind
telepathy+debates+=Pwned

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Australia

quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
but why would you post your ideas in a forum if you didn't want to discuss them?

EDIT:

also, http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/ge...i=9780192805850


I never said i didn't want to discuss them.I just said i doubt you will be able to dissuade me from believing in them.


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 03:58 AM
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Mindship
Snap out of it.

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Martian_mind
"I exist"
"I" is an illusion, a symbolic construct for convenient reference in a society of like beings. Spend some time trying to quiet your mental chatter; you won't be able to because "I" has no substance therefore no real control (not that any of us do, please note). What you'll notice instead is a loosely organized collective of "agents" (for lack of a better word), each with its own agenda, will, inner dialogue and emotion-set, all together masquerading as a singular "I."

"I exist" would be more correctly stated as "The illusion of 'I' exists."


smokin'


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 11:04 AM
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Cartesian Doubt
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
"I" is an illusion, a symbolic construct for convenient reference in a society of like beings. Spend some time trying to quiet your mental chatter; you won't be able to because "I" has no substance therefore no real control (not that any of us do, please note). What you'll notice instead is a loosely organized collective of "agents" (for lack of a better word), each with its own agenda, will, inner dialogue and emotion-set, all together masquerading as a singular "I."

"I exist" would be more correctly stated as "The illusion of 'I' exists."


smokin'


Are you Wittgenstein ?


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 11:24 AM
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Cartesian Doubt
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Re: Who can say, without a doubt, that I am not a dream?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
We dream some really weird things, but how do I know that my life isn't one giant dream, thought up by a comatose patient?


G.E. Moore would disagree with you.

"I have hands" therefore external world skepticism is Bullshit etc.

I give you the magic of the "G.E. Moore shift"; as close as we will probably ever get to rejecting external world skepticism.

https://vlebb.leeds.ac.uk/webapps/p...4430_1%26url%3D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_is_a_hand


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 11:32 AM
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Mindship
Snap out of it.

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Are you Wittgenstein ?
You mean reincarnated? I don't think so. I was kind of hoping for Hegel.


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 12:40 PM
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Cartesian Doubt
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
You mean reincarnated? I don't think so. I was kind of hoping for Hegel.


Don't know much about Hegel, other than the fact that his Idealism dominated Philosophy right up until G.E. Moore, Bertie Russel and co took it apart.


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 01:30 PM
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inimalist
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I never said i didn't want to discuss them.I just said i doubt you will be able to dissuade me from believing in them.


so you are admittedly close minded?

why do you assume I want to convince you of anything. I'm interested in the discussion. It would be really boring if everyone just agreed with me.


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He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 01:36 PM
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Mindship
Snap out of it.

Gender: Male
Location: Yon

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Don't know much about Hegel, other than the fact that his Idealism dominated Philosophy right up until G.E. Moore, Bertie Russel and co took it apart.
Only cuz they weren't able to debate him on KMC.


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Last edited by Mindship on Apr 24th, 2009 at 03:39 PM

Old Post Apr 24th, 2009 03:36 PM
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