No, Fischer was the dreamer for all three levels. Those were his projections, too. If what you say is true, then we would have projections from the other "riders", as well as Fischers.
Does that answer you question or am I missing something?
Also, we know that the "dream-scape" is largely the memory of the mark (dreamer) because Fischer was leaving his office, on his phone, and seemed to be right at home in his own memories, remember?
No, Fischer was not the dreamer for those three levels. Though the team did lie to Fischer and convince him that he was the one who was dreaming. The second level - the one where Cobb convinced Fischer that he (being cobb) was a manifestation of Fischers sub-conscious - was actually Arthur's dream. They say that several times.
Thats why when Fischer realizes that he is asleep (which is probably what is confusing you, because yes - they are all indeed sleeping) that Fischer's subconscious manifestations look for Arthur.
Just realized that Stall already pointed that out to you dudeman. He's right all the way through.
So why are Fischer's projections attacking in all 3 layers? Yes, I'm aware he has extraction training, but they are not his dreams. Shouldn't there be projections from Yusuf in layer 1, projections from Arthur in layer 2, and projections from Eames in layer 3?
Why are there hosts in all three layers, attacking the group? Is that just a plot hole or did Nolan forget that he explained, from Cobbs to Adriedne, that the projections are subconscious projections of the "mark" that act like white-blood cells to flush out the intruder?
Don't you remember Cobbs explaining that you can never remember the beginning of a dream, that you're always smack in the middle of it. Remember Ariadne couldn't remediable how they got to the coffee stand.
Also if Fisher was the dreamer, how could Arthur pull off the staircase paradox trick on one of the projections.
Because they are aware that they are in someone elses dream. The projections are trained to notice the strangeness of the dream.
I don't think the dreamer brings it's projections into the dream. If they do then they're harmless as they realize they're not in someone elses dream.
As far as Fishers projection attacking in all three layer, remember Cobb's projections attacked Ariadne in Ariadne's dream. The point is they are attacking because they realize they are in someone elses dream, so they attack the dreamer.
I'm not sure if I understand the third question. If you're asking why the projections attacked the dreamer rather than the people intruding into the dream, then the answer is that he explained that it works the other way. That the projections realize that they are in someone elses dream. It's not the dreamers projections attacking the other people in his or her dream it's the other people's projections attacking the dreamer to because they sense the foreign nature of the dream and know they've been brought into another person's dream.
It's explained that the architect creates the world, and then the world is filled with the projections of another, may it be the dreamer or, in Fischer's case, the mark. They had to allow Fischer's projections to populate the world because otherwise the idea would not have seemed to come from Fischer's own mind. They allowed the projections from another in to create the illusion.
Ariadne was attacked by Cobb's subconscious because they were in HER dream. That's why when Cobb told her that, she started to bug out for a minute and things started to collapse.
Again - they are in Ariadne's dream. NOT Cobbs.
Alot of people find Inception confusing, so its not that big a deal that you don't know what you're talking about.
Edit -
Wait, I am not willing to give this point up, yet. I'm still certain it was Cobb's dream. Cobb said that the projections attack the person that is "riding the dream" if they make things too suspicious. The dream memories were from Cobb, as well.
It is the point that Cobb tells her that it is a dream that she freaks out. Because she's an architect type, she starts spazing. I still think it was Cobb's dream.
I'll have to see the movie a second time as I don't remember Cobbs saying it was anyone's dream...but it looks like it was implied that she was the intruder (quite blatantly).
Yes they can. It's how Levitt and Hardy obtained weapons in the warehouse during the first level. They just can't change it so much the projections will fight back.
Well, I had time to think about it and your point, Quincy, about Adriedne's "learning" adventure with Cobbs could have multiple interpretations.
Cobbs didn't remember anything before that point, either. Since the elements were pulled from his memory, it is far more likely that it was his dream than hers. Make sense?
i saw this movie last night.. loved it.. the movie wasn't that tough to follow.. on the other hand, this movie wasn't meant to be seen only once.. i took most of it in but i still feel that there's way more that needs to be considered.. i will be dissecting this movie when it comes out on DVD.. i think i found my second "the matrix"..
Yeah I remember the scene. I also remember him saying and her being surprised that she was creating then entire place and then she proceeded to mess with the physics of it which is when Cobb's subconscious started to look for her. (Incidentally I liked the idea that they could have spoken to any of the inhabitants of the dream world in order to find out more about the Mark's subconscious as they were manifestations of it)
Remember that she even made places from her own memory and got scalded for it (the mirrors scene)
"We create the world of the dream. They (the mark) come in to that dream and fill it with their secrets"
They even discuss the fact that she has to make the dream like a labyrinth and it must be completely unknown to him so as his subconscious projection of Mal doesn't try and sabotage the job. (When he was asking if there was a quick route through)
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Last edited by jaden101 on Jul 25th, 2010 at 09:36 PM
All of the "players" can have projections in the dreams, but only Cobbs has a projection and that's Mal. People that have been fortified have passive projections that will pop-up into dream that are participating in...but why do his show up and not Cobbs (besides Mal)?
Well, really, the only thing I've succeeded in doing is illustrating that there's really no rule for whose projections show up where..cept for Cobbs, which is everywhere and it's only Mal.
I really need to watch it a second time.
And, yeah, I understand the maze thing: it's to keep Mal out of Cobbs business when they are running away. But I that dream that both Adriedne and Cobbs are in, in the first training session, there's no way to determine whose dream that was. I searched the net for an answer and I could not find anything specific beyond "they both enter a dream."
Is it possible that there are unhosted dreams? That would explain that large group of people dreaming together, of course.
I think, perhaps, the team are trained not to allow their subconscious projections interfere with the dream as, just like messing with the physics of the building, this would indicate to the person who's dream it is (the mark's) that something is in the dream that is not of their projection and would be a hint that someone is hijacking their dream.
As for that training dream with Ariadne and Cobb, if I remember correctly, he tells her that she is creating the world and the subconscious projections (all the people) are his.
From about 1:18
She's creating the world and doesn't even know it. It's only once he tells her that it starts to fall apart.
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Last edited by jaden101 on Jul 25th, 2010 at 10:00 PM
And forgot to say that in the case of Cobb, Mal's part in his subconscious is so strong and ingrained that it manifests itself (probably indicating a mental health problem of some sort)
Makes you wonder what sort of ****ed up shit someone with serious head problems would project.
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Jul 25th, 2010 03:54 AM
