KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Movie Franchises » Lord of the Rings » Something everyone wonder, WHO WOULD WIN, WITCH KING OR GANDALF?

Something everyone wonder, WHO WOULD WIN, WITCH KING OR GANDALF?
Started by: Incanus

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (5): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Lord Lucien
FU

Gender: Male
Location:

Exactly. Gandalf, no matter his flesh, is NOT a Man. And a prophecy is something that does NOT have to happen. Prophecies can fail or be misread. It's not divine and absolute clairvoyance.


__________________
I'm not going to lie: I despise children. There, I've said it.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 12:52 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
'Kay man, Glorfindel didn't kill the Witch-King, so whether the enchanted sword would work or whether he could isn't told. He forced the Witch-King to flee and prophesies to him that he would not be killed by a Man. The Witch-King in turn interpreted that to mean he can not be killed by a Man. If you can point me to a source by J.R.R or Christopher Tolkien stating just exactly what the f*ck it all means, I'd be grateful. Does it mean the WK CAN'T be killed by a man, does it mean he WON'T be killed by a man, does Eowyn fall in to those parameters? What?

Either way, in Return of the King, the Witch-King demanded Gandalf step aside, and Gandalf didn't budge. A Maia spirit of enhanced magical ability sent back by the Vala and wielding an Elven sword can't handle a corrupted Man?

First of all, in ROTK, the Witch-King was about to battle Gandalf, but heard the horn of Rohan. That is, if I still remember correctly. I read the damned book in 9th grade(4 yrs ago).

Second of all, the Corrupted Man isn't just a man. If a remember correctly, he is Numenorean who was corrupted by one of the 9th ring of powers given to kings(immortal). Now Numenoreans weren't just normal men. they were magicans, warriors, and kings.

Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing. They had, as it seemed, unending life, yet life became unendurable to them. They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun, and they could see things in worlds invisible to mortal men; but too often they beheld only the phantoms and delusions of Sauron. And one by one, sooner or later, according to their native strength and to the good or evil of their wills in the beginning, they fell under the thralldom of the ring that they bore and of the domination of the One which was Sauron's. And they became forever invisible save to him that wore the Ruling Ring, and they entered into the realm of shadows. The Nazgul were they, the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terrible servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.

The Silmarillion: "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age," p. 289



- Also, Gandalf's power is limited. If he uses too much, he either dies, or becomes corrupted; so he is pretty limited.
- Glorfindel did kill a Balrog.
- When Pippin attack the WK, he was hurt even though he had a enchanted sword from the elves. In fact, the sword didn't even hurt him. That sword had power because...
So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
The Return of the King: "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields," p. 119-20


*Note 1: A note written by Tolkien in the manuscript of his "Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings" says: "the name and origin of the Witch-king is not recorded, but he was probably ... of Numenorean descent." (The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, p. 20)

This isn't a good source, but it is very very accurate.


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 01:13 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Morgromir
and Eowyn didnt really fall into those regulations since Man is a shortened name for the human species and even though gandalf looks to be human he is a demigod

as much as i love the nazgul
i think that if one had to die the WK would

That's not how it works. If what yo usay is true, then hobbits are also men, whether they be man or woman. Even Elves, Orcs, Uruk, or any other species.


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 01:14 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Khamul 666
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Laketown

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's not how it works. If what yo usay is true, then hobbits are also men, whether they be man or woman. Even Elves, Orcs, Uruk, or any other species.
no elves are elves not man the same for the rest they are close but not man .
its similiar to saying a tiger is a lion they are the same and different they are feline but not each other


__________________
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 01:26 AM
Khamul 666 is currently offline Click here to Send Khamul 666 a Private Message Find more posts by Khamul 666 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
FU

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
First of all, in ROTK, the Witch-King was about to battle Gandalf, but heard the horn of Rohan. That is, if I still remember correctly. I read the damned book in 9th grade(4 yrs ago).
You're right, he did. And Gandalf hadn't budged.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Second of all, the Corrupted Man isn't just a man. If a remember correctly, he is Numenorean who was corrupted by one of the 9th ring of powers given to kings(immortal). Now Numenoreans weren't just normal men. they were magicans, warriors, and kings.
I know what the Witch-King is. Gandalf is a MAIA. And one armed with enhanced magical abilitites, one of the three Elvish Rings of Powers, and an Elven blade. Pippin is a HOBBIT with an Elven blade. End. No matter which way you spin it, Gandalf is NOT a man, so he falls within the parameters of the prophecy which was made by an Elf and not set in stone. Hell, Merry could damagae the Witch-King despite, as Tolkien as said, Hobbits being an off-shoot of men. And Eowyn, who actuallys IS of the race of Men.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
When Pippin attack the WK, he was hurt even though he had a enchanted sword from the elves. In fact, the sword didn't even hurt him. That sword had power because...
You're not very coherent here, so I'll assume that you're saying that the Elvish blade didn't actually hurt the Witch-King, despite:

"...But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving him to the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee."


__________________
I'm not going to lie: I despise children. There, I've said it.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 01:34 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote:
no elves are elves not man the same for the rest they are close but not man . its similiar to saying a tiger is a lion they are the same and different they are feline but not each other

So what makes you think that Men and Women is the same thing?

quote:
You're right, he did. And Gandalf hadn't budged.

You are right, Gandalf would have attack WK, but he was called by Pippin.

quote:
I know what the Witch-King is. Gandalf is a MAIA. And one armed with enhanced magical abilitites, one of the three Elvish Rings of Powers, and an Elven blade. Pippin is a HOBBIT with an Elven blade. End. No matter which way you spin it, Gandalf is NOT a man, so he falls within the parameters of the prophecy which was made by an Elf and not set in stone. Hell, Merry could damagae the Witch-King despite, as Tolkien as said, Hobbits being an off-shoot of men. And Eowyn, who actuallys IS of the race of Men.

That's not how it works. Maias are not unstoppable, otherwise Saruman would have done it by himself. Granted, Gandalf is much stronger. Gandalf never actually specifically stated he would defeat the Witch King as he appeared unsure a few times if he could defeat him. That and the Witch King was given even more power at the assault against Minus Tirith. That's something to think about.

quote:
You're not very coherent here, so I'll assume that you're saying that the Elvish blade didn't actually hurt the Witch-King, despite: "...But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving him to the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee."

No, I was being precise. The blade from the barrow downs is what did the majority of the work, once pippin stabbed him with it he could have been killed by anyone Eowyn was just there at the time. That sword was build ESPECIALLY for the destruction of the Witch-King

You can look at the prophecy in two ways, that Eowyn is a woman - not a man, and/or Merry is a hobbit and not in the race of Men.

Also, Glorfindel wasn't weak. He was so powerful that he singel handedly saved the refugees of gondolin from a Balrog ambush, he wouldve survived the deed too if the Balrog had not been so cowardly. Flowers ever grew on his mound and no orcs ever dared to go near it. He was powerful enough to ride out openly against the Nine alone. He alone defeated a Balrog who is a Maia, so don't act like a Miai can't be defeat by men, elves..etc.


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 01:59 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Khamul 666
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Laketown

By Man I mean Human which is also what most refferences to humans were.


__________________
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 02:07 AM
Khamul 666 is currently offline Click here to Send Khamul 666 a Private Message Find more posts by Khamul 666 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Morgromir
By Man I mean Human which is also what most refferences to humans were.

Yes, but there are plently of different men. Hobbit men, Rohan Men, Gondor Men, Numem Men..etc. Get what I am saying?


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 02:10 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Khamul 666
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Laketown

hobbit men as in males not human


__________________
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 02:14 AM
Khamul 666 is currently offline Click here to Send Khamul 666 a Private Message Find more posts by Khamul 666 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Morgromir
hobbit men as in males not human man

What about the rest

@ Lord Lucien
I also want to point out that the Istari were in shape of OLD Men, rheir powers couldn't be fully used in that shape


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 02:15 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
FU

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
So what makes you think that Men and Women is the same thing?
Race of Men, get it?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
You are right, Gandalf would have attack WK, but he was called by Pippin.
...what?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's not how it works. Maias are not unstoppable, otherwise Saruman would have done it by himself. Granted, Gandalf is much stronger. Gandalf never actually specifically stated he would defeat the Witch King as he appeared unsure a few times if he could defeat him. That and the Witch King was given even more power at the assault against Minus Tirith. That's something to think about.
Now we're getting somewhere. Could you post the quotes of these?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, I was being precise. The blade from the barrow downs is what did the majority of the work, once pippin stabbed him with it he could have been killed by anyone Eowyn was just there at the time. That sword was build ESPECIALLY for the destruction of the Witch-King
Good point, I'd forgotten about that. But, answer me this: Does that mean that an Elven sword can't hurt him? If so then that actually makes the Witch-King otherwise invincible. So it's strange then that Glorfindel set him to flight and refused to finish him (because he can't, not possessing a Barrow-sword).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
You can look at the prophecy in two ways, that Eowyn is a woman - not a man, and/or Merry is a hobbit and not in the race of Men.
That's right.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Also, Glorfindel wasn't weak. He was so powerful that he singel handedly saved the refugees of gondolin from a Balrog ambush, he wouldve survived the deed too if the Balrog had not been so cowardly.
So Glorfindel, Elf-slayer of Balrogs, armed with what we can only assume is a sword of Gondolin, is sent back from the Halls of Mandos in Valinor and set the With-King to flight. And you're suggesting that Gandalf, Maia-spirit slayer of Balrogs, sent to Middle Earth from Valinor with re-amped powers, armed with a sword of Gondolin, and a Ring of Power, is going to be defeated by the same Lord of the Nazgul that Glorfindel sent away?


__________________
I'm not going to lie: I despise children. There, I've said it.

Last edited by Lord Lucien on Aug 24th, 2009 at 02:37 AM

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 02:33 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote:
Race of Men, get it?

Depends, there are Haradrim, Gondorian, Rohhiram, Num,,etc. Get it?

quote:
what?

Didn't Pippen call Gandalf about the think with Faramir?


quote:
Now we're getting somewhere. Could you post the quotes of these?

Unfortunately, no. I don't have the books with me. I've read them fast for extra credit. Here is one quote, and I think it explains it
So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
The Return of the King: "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields," p. 119-20

quote:
Good point, I'd forgotten about that. But, answer me this: Does that mean that an Elven sword can't hurt him? If so then that actually makes the Witch-King otherwise invincible. So it's strange then that Glorfindel set him to flight and refused to finish him (because he can't, not possessing a Barrow-sword).

Not sure, but know this, Glorfindel did not make Witch-King flee. Witch-King did not retreat because he was defeat, he in fact did his duty. It was to destroy Arnor, which he did. No need to stay, right?


quote:
So Glorfindel, Elf-slayer of Balrogs, armed with what we can only assume is a sword of Gondolin, is sent back from the Halls of Mandos in Valinor and set the With-King to flight. And you're suggesting that Gandalf, Maia-spirit slayer of Balrogs, sent to Middle Earth from Valinor with re-amped powers, armed with a sword of Gondolin, and a Ring of Power, is going to be defeated by the same Lord of the Nazgul that Glorfindel sent away?

You do know that Balrog is a corrupted Maia that take a form of demons? Glorfindel who was just an elven warrior(saw the light of a valor though) defeated a Balrog who ambushed him.


__________________

Last edited by xJLxKing on Aug 24th, 2009 at 03:16 AM

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 03:04 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

Also, Hobbits are men. They just evolved.

The first chapter of the books, Concerning Hobbits tells most of what we know about Hobbits. For the most part they come from the upper part of the Anduin, as far as I know, a race of short men who've evolved over time into Hobbits, short, stocky, ale-loving, hairy-feeted, colorful people.


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 03:36 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Khamul 666
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Laketown

true but at that time period they werent


__________________
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 04:39 AM
Khamul 666 is currently offline Click here to Send Khamul 666 a Private Message Find more posts by Khamul 666 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

While I have time I will say this. I am pretty sure it was stated somewhere that Witch-King was invulnerable to some point. This is why there were some weapon specifically designed to kill him; one like Merry used.

Though, the question in this argument is whether, or not Gandalf has enough power to break that enchantment that the Witch-King has. My guess is, I don't know the exact answer. He stated that he is the strongest being in ME unless you were put in front of the Dark Lord. Yet, Saruman was stronger at this time. In addition, he was not sure if he can take on the Witch King.

People who did feats just like Gandalf weren't sure if they can defeat The Witch King (Glorfindel). It was mere coincidence that a Woman killed him. Even if she was stronger then him in combat, she wouldn't have been able to kill him because of his barrier. Merry made it possible though.

Though, Gandalf is a Maia who live in both world(the world of the death and the normal world) and he has great power in both worlds, so this might mean that he can harm the WK in both planes. HOWEVER, he One Ring makes you invisible by removing you from the "normal" plane and putting you into a paralell-dimension type thing. The Nazgūl look like the skeletons that Frodo saw in the first movie when they are in the "other" world.
However, Elves too (or at least, elves not of Mirkwood) live in both planes at the same time, so if it's true, than elves have the same advantage as Gandalf does. This is definitely not true.

The two-planes theory is derived mostly from the Letters of Tolkien.

So it all comes to whether of not Gandalf can harm WK. His advantage about elves swords wouldn't really mean nothing. Only the swords like the Sword of Westernesse can harm him. Without it, Gandalf is a sitting duck that might hurt the WK. I don't know if his powers can hurt Wk. Maybe a FireBall stick out tongue, but then again WK were Sorcerers. It comes down to which you want to believe.

So like one of my first post, in terms of power, Gandalf should be stronger. He after all is a Maia with a Elven Ring, and Leader of the Istari. But remember, The Elven Rings of Power had the power of preservation, to prevent aging. I think that they also have some other power powers, that increase strengths, or maybe add wisdom or insight. Would this help?? confused


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 04:47 AM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Khamul 666
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Laketown

base line is neither kill eachother and it comes to a draw .


__________________
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 04:59 AM
Khamul 666 is currently offline Click here to Send Khamul 666 a Private Message Find more posts by Khamul 666 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
FU

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Depends, there are Haradrim, Gondorian, Rohhiram, Num,,etc. Get it?
All Men, different kingdoms.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Didn't Pippen call Gandalf about the think with Faramir?
Something like that, or Rohan arrived, or something.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Not sure, but know this, Glorfindel did not make Witch-King flee. Witch-King did not retreat because he was defeat, he in fact did his duty. It was to destroy Arnor, which he did. No need to stay, right?
Yeaaahh. Still weird why someone so hard to kill would run. Unless, Elves with Elvish weapons can harm him...



quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
You do know that Balrog is a corrupted Maia that take a form of demons? Glorfindel who was just an elven warrior(saw the light of a valor though) defeated a Balrog who ambushed him.
I know, and that Balrog was a coward, you said, so it resulted in his death somehow (I forget, been a while)? That means an Elvish warrior with an Elvish blade killed a Balrog, and was killed in turn. He later came BACK from the dead to help out Middle-Earth. Gandalf, meantime: A Maia, who, with an Elvish blade killed a Balrog that wasn't a coward, and was killed in turn. Then he came BACK from the dead with greater powers.


__________________
I'm not going to lie: I despise children. There, I've said it.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 06:14 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
FU

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
So it all comes to whether of not Gandalf can harm WK. His advantage about elves swords wouldn't really mean nothing. Only the swords like the Sword of Westernesse can harm him. Without it, Gandalf is a sitting duck that might hurt the WK. I don't know if his powers can hurt Wk. Maybe a FireBall stick out tongue, but then again WK were Sorcerers. It comes down to which you want to believe.
Remember that Westernesse is Tolkien's Numenor, a kingdom of Men. Their descendants in Arnor and it's three descendants, Arthedain, Cardolan, and Rhudaur were all Kingdoms of Men. So Men devising weapons to hurt he who can't really be hurt by their normal weapons is understandable.


__________________
I'm not going to lie: I despise children. There, I've said it.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 06:19 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote:
All Men, different kingdoms.

Actually, that's not entirely true. Some "kingdoms" aren't really the same when it comes down to men. Numem were given more strength, more speed, a bigger life spam,...etc. This is why Aragorn was like 87 when Eowyn asked his age.

So they really aren't the same. Like Hobbits, they were once men, but evolved to something different. Numemmors evolved to becomes something like Gondor, or Rohan.

quote:
Something like that, or Rohan arrived, or something.

Yup

quote:
Yeaaahh. Still weird why someone so hard to kill would run. Unless, Elves with Elvish weapons can harm him...

Well think of this way. His army, his stronghold, and anything else was destroyed. Why stay? In addition, his "mission" was accomplished.

quote:
I know, and that Balrog was a coward, you said, so it resulted in his death somehow (I forget, been a while)? That means an Elvish warrior with an Elvish blade killed a Balrog, and was killed in turn. He later came BACK from the dead to help out Middle-Earth. Gandalf, meantime: A Maia, who, with an Elvish blade killed a Balrog that wasn't a coward, and was killed in turn. Then he came BACK from the dead with greater powers.

I am not sure that Balrog was a coward. He wanted to ambush the people. Also, Glorfindel was winning easily. That Balrog lost an arm(whip), his other arm had a sword peirced in it, and his belly was struck by a spear. When he fell to his doom, he caught Glorfindels golden hair. That's why he died, because of the fall from the mountain. Gandalf on the other hand died because he fought the Balrog and his couldn't match him in strength. Granted, he was much weaker. He was give more power to counter Saruman. He as only the only Istari left to help the people of ME.

quote:
Remember that Westernesse is Tolkien's Numenor, a kingdom of Men. Their descendants in Arnor and it's three descendants, Arthedain, Cardolan, and Rhudaur were all Kingdoms of Men. So Men devising weapons to hurt he who can't really be hurt by their normal weapons is understandable.

That I understand especially since Witch-King had a stronghold in Agmar.


__________________

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 01:44 PM
xJLxKing is currently offline Click here to Send xJLxKing a Private Message Find more posts by xJLxKing Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
FU

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually, that's not entirely true. Some "kingdoms" aren't really the same when it comes down to men. Numem were given more strength, more speed, a bigger life spam,...etc. This is why Aragorn was like 87 when Eowyn asked his age.

So they really aren't the same. Like Hobbits, they were once men, but evolved to something different. Numemmors evolved to becomes something like Gondor, or Rohan.
ToMAYto--toMAHto. Different kingdoms, different cultures, different physiology, different gifts and powers. Either way, all Men who awoke with the Sun. It's like the Quendi splitting in to the Avari and the Eldar, the Eldar in to the Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri, and from there in to Calaquendi and Moriquendi. All different peoples with their own abilities and attributes, but all Elves.




quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well think of this way. His army, his stronghold, and anything else was destroyed. Why stay? In addition, his "mission" was accomplished.
We can debate the Witch-King's intentions until doomsday and we'll never prove it. It just really seems strange though that he would run, when killing such a powerful and important being such as Glorfindel is within his capacity (and his physical range).


quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
I am not sure that Balrog was a coward. He wanted to ambush the people. Also, Glorfindel was winning easily. That Balrog lost an arm(whip), his other arm had a sword peirced in it, and his belly was struck by a spear. When he fell to his doom, he caught Glorfindels golden hair. That's why he died, because of the fall from the mountain. Gandalf on the other hand died because he fought the Balrog and his couldn't match him in strength. Granted, he was much weaker. He was give more power to counter Saruman. He as only the only Istari left to help the people of ME.
I have to read the Silmarillion again, the entire Fall of Gondolin is a blank to me.

Either way, both are powerful beings, both slew and were slain by their respective Balrogs, both wielded Gondolin weapons (presumably in Glorfindel's case), and Gandalf possessed Narya (though admittedly, it's power of kindling hope as no physical power, but would be effective against the Dementor-esque nature of the Nazgul). Taking such in to consideration, along with Gandalf's status as a Maia with Valar-enhanced magical abilities, it's not unreasonable in the slightest to conceive that unleashing his actual powers on the Witch-King would defeat him.


__________________
I'm not going to lie: I despise children. There, I've said it.

Old Post Aug 25th, 2009 04:50 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 01:20 PM.
Pages (5): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Movie Franchises » Lord of the Rings » Something everyone wonder, WHO WOULD WIN, WITCH KING OR GANDALF?

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.