Gender: Male Location: Killin zombies with Post-it notes
GAndalf wins haven't you played the games =p
__________________ "My actions have nothing to do with Shinigami protocol... I've rescinded your right to live... because you aspired to cut my pride... with such a dull blade."--Byakuya Kuchiki
Numem and the other men were very different. They even had gun and cannons. They were much stronger, faster, smarter. They were powerful wizards. They had their life spam prolonged. They were once human like us but no longer.
Same can be said about Elves. Mirkwood elves can't see in both realms (Where Nuzgul can be seen, and normal), but the other elves from Rivendel can see. Maybe they lost that ability, but there are difference.
The way I see it, Gondor/Rohan, Arnor, Hobbits, & Numem are all from the same tree, but they have their difference. Just like a Alligator and Crocodile :P
Would you fight an entire army, a powerful warrior, and Glorfindel by yourself?? Glorfindel alone is power and imagine all those arrows, attacks of everyone else. Why fight that when you already did what you needed to.
Well there is a slight difference. Gandalf fought and died from his wounds. Glorfindel was close to killing Balrog. The balrog was all but killed. Glorfindel was unharmed, but them Balrog pulled him down the mountain where they both died. The same Glorfindel later took on the 9 Nuzguls. Makes you wonder how powerful he is.
Also, I don't think andalf can use his full power in that body. I don't remember quite well, but depending on the form the Maiar take, they are limited. Remember when Sauron got defeated when he took a form of a wolf? I don't remember it quite well, I am sure I am correct on that part.
Yeah, I know. They're all different, but they are all of the Race of Men.
Again, Witch-King's true intentions=Who knows. But if it was Glorfindel's power he was afraid of, what were these powers, and who can prove Gandalf the White doesn't have them?
I heard not that the Istari would be ruined from it, but that they were strictly prohibited from it (the Valar afraid of another Beleriand), their purpose being to guide Middle Earth not personally defend it. It's that unleashed Gandalf I speak of.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
His intentions were to destroy Arnor. He succeeded! Why stay any longer.
Yes, All Maiar are restricted in the forms they take. Gandalf is restricted/prohibited in two ways.
1- Old body of a wizard
2- Can only use his power to rally the people of ME against Sauron. The Istari weren't allowed to win the fight. Otherwise, a Valar can just come down and kill everyone. What would that teach the people in ME? nothing!
Humans. Men. Those who awoke with the Sun. Numenorians, Easterlings, Haradrim, Eotheod---all of them are Men.
Why flee? Kill Glorfindel. Be done with it.
Really have to wonder at the collective wisdom of such gods. They can create existence through song but can't stop a rogue demi-god without obliterating everything? Pfff.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
But all are different, in a way. same species though.
What about the army, and everybody else. Besides that, Glorfindel was not scared to take on 9 Nuzguk, this includes the Witch-King. In addition, it's still speculation that Witch-king could even take on Glorfindel and win.
Well Valar and Maiar are the same things. Valar were just 14 Maiar who were stronger. If they fight, they would reck continent. Kinda stupid like you said though.
Gandalf probably would be ristricted in "the grey" form he couldnt kill a balrog without getting taken down with it . so when he was "reborn" in a more powerful body he couldve taken out that balrog without it going kamakazi. Same as morgoth getting wounded in his wolf form .
in the right condition I think Gandalf could win
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
Yeah, all Ainur. But the Valar are dumb. Instead this time, don't send EVERYTHING at the Dark Lord, juts send like Manwe or Ulmo or someone. One Vala should do the trick against Sauron. Kind of a poorly thought out plot device on Tolkien's part.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Ok, so
1) Gandalf had the sword of Turgon
2)Glorfindel had his sword form Gondolin
3)Gandalf wasw limited in his powers, he could never openly display them against the DarkLord
4)It took an army of Maiar and elves to fight an army of Maiar, orcs, Krakens, dragons, etc. To many to list. Watcher=Kraken btw.
5)Gandalf wins because the WK is just a man
6)Numenoreans were regular Men, but with prolonged lifespans, and were more elvish in appearence and nature,m they wernt sorcerers or anything, "They came among the peoples of Middle-Eartj, ande taught them how to sow crops, make wine, and order things. Then when they left, all people could remember were memories of the SeaKings" The Akallabeth.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
So did Gandalf, and that was before Eru boosted his power. And he chased away (not all 9) Nazgul with his little flashlight-thingy. Really, if Glorfindel could do everything Gandalf could, and more... don't send a Maiar to do an Elf's job.
Definitely, or at least gave them a better excuse as to why they didn't intervene. You know something along the lines of their godly presence having adverse effects on people, or Eru personally banning them from intervening.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
haha this is funny watching everyone argue about whos more badass,Gandalf or Glorfindel .
I'm not sure but I think Gandalf was probably more clever than Glorfindel.
Tolkien most likely wrote about the Valar to provide backround and the story of gods , they didnt intervene cause they knew ME would win in the end .
A different example would be if satin arose from Tartaraus I dont think God would come with an army of angels .
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
1)Your point?
2) Your Point?
3) He was limited in his power. He can't use all his power because
- He will become corrupted even if his intentions are good
- He took the form of an old man, that is what Istari had to do.
- He was sent to unite, and rally the people of ME, and not win the war for them. I am sure the Istari>Sauron easily.
4) What?
5) WK is not just a man. He is immortal(in a way). He lives in both realms. He had a barrier that an opponent had to breach. If he was just a man, Gandalf wouldn't have been unsure if he can beat him or not.
6) They weren't just ordinary men. Like you said, they had prolong life span, but they WERE wizards;just like Mouth Of Sauron. They had huge knowledge as well. They were had cannons as weapons. Not only that, but they had a boost in strength and other attributes.
Eru didn't boost his power. It was probably the Valar. Eru believes in free will. This is why Morgoth wasn't killed by Eru.
I admitted that Gandalf was weaker when he fought the Balrog, but he died with the Balrog fight. Glorfindel didn't die because of the wound, he already won and was dragged down the mountain. As for Gandalf being sent back to ME; Glorfindel was sent back as well. After he died, he came back to ME.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
I will be buggered if I'm going out to find the source, but I distinctly recall from some appendix or something (and the Internets, having just looked) that the Valar couldn't revive him and that Eru had to intervene personally (same with Numenor).
Yeah, I know. It just seems dumb of the Valar (and Tolkien) to send an Elf who kills BALROGS back to help out Middle Earth during the Witch-King's incursions in to Eriador, and succeed, but not have him do SHIT all during the events of LotR. I mean, if he can do amazing stuff like that, why make Gandalf so prominent? Give Glorfindel Narya, show him killing some Balrogs and Nazgul, and wham! You've got hope and inspiration for the people.
He was a dumb inclusion. Should have made his resurrected self some different (non-uber) Elf.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Well the thing is, Maiar and Valars can't die. They are spirits. However, they can weakened to the point where they are so weak that they can never take a physical form of any kind. Whether it be a dog, an old man, or an elf. They can also be sent to the void where Morgoth is.
For Numenor, I believe he did intervene. He took away their prolonged lifespan and other stuff because they didn't believe in him. Morgoth(i think) corrupted them.
Well, Gandalf was a very wise Maiar. He was known everywhere. In addition, normal weapon couldn't really hurt him as GTW.
A question to XJL, if they had cannons, then why didnt they have them at the War oif the Last Allianbce, there would soubtlessly have been at leaqst 1 guy who makes them, the shot, and powder for them among the Faitrhful, so they would have had them. Rebuke if you can, which I highly doubt if it is to include anything that would make me belive they did.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
He's asking why the Numenorians (Gondor) didn't use cannons against the hordes of Orcs on the slopes of Mt. Doom at the end of the 2nd age. The one that took out Sauron?
They aren't the same as the Numernorians who were struck down by the Valar. At least that why I think it's they didn't.
Besides, Sauron was already losing. That's why he came out to battle. His forces were driven back all the way to the slopes of Mt.Doom.
Minas Tirith was built by them. That shows something! The hard thing about sieging Minas Tirith was that it's walls were nearly impervious because of the master craftsmanship of the Numenoreans. A big deal was made of this in RotK because the only viable point of attack was the gate.
Same goes for the Tower that Saruman lived in(can't spell name)
__________________
Last edited by xJLxKing on Aug 29th, 2009 at 03:59 AM
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