We know Batman only started moving AFTER they were fired...because that was the whole point. He needed to trick Supes into firing a deadly blast of HV at the prism, which was behind him.
If he started to move BEFORE the beans were fired..why would Supes (who was out to kill Bats) fire at where he was standing a second before? We see the split second, frozen in the image, where the beams are already travelling in mid air directly at Bats.
As for their speed.....they're heat and light. Which travels at light speed.
Daredevil is never shown speed-blitzing his peers like Cap, Black Panther, Ironfist, Elektra, etc. They have competitive fights where they exchange blows. lol @ Batman being a stiff, he has the best combo of speed, agility, power, and skill. Who's ignoring his radar senses? That's what allow DD to compete against Bats. Bats have done well against those with enhance senses his whole career.
Again you miss the whole point. Spiderman has commented on how a lot of mmaers are fast, so DD isn't special in that regard. You bring up Namor, but refuse to accept Bats dodging Superman. Either its PIS for both or it can be used for both. And Bats have done things like that many times against Super types. that Bats can't compete when he has stalemated better like Karate Kid.
wow you finally admitted that DD doesn't have flash or quicksilver speed. Wait so now you are stating that the only way DD gets hit in a fight is to be tricked lol. There was no trick when Ka-zar knocked the radar sense out of him or Echo gave his a tough time one on one. Bane is not a brick, Bane has metahuman speed and reflexes even off of venom. Grundy and Killer Crock both have been one-shotted by Bats, and lost way more times than they have ever given him a competitive fight. So no Bats routinely throughout his whole career has avoided being hits by bricks or even enhanced stats opponent.
are you suggesting that dodging whatever Bullseye is throwing is more impressive than dodging bullets from Deadshot.
Last edited by Supermutant on Feb 27th, 2017 at 02:16 PM
i never claimed daredevil can just speedblitz other street levelers like batman or his superior cap. that would be insane. however, i did state he has an edge in speed over batman, which you dont agree with. if anything, daredevil is portrayed as being slightly more agile and have sharper reflexes. on the other hand batman is always the more stiff fighter when compared against guys like nightwing or deathstroke. what allows batman to compete is his damage soak thanks to his you know... rubber armor suit which reduces the impacts he recieve, as well as his punching power which i will say is better than daredevils. however as far as fighting speed and reflexes, daredevil is portrayed better than batman. for example the feats i already mentioned. his radar senses are something batman wont be able to compete with. batman as far as speed and reflex is good, but daredevil with his radar senses is just enhanced to low super human levels. anyone who knows the 2 characters will admit daredevil got this. unless they are bamtna fanboys of course...
and you fail to understand is that daredevil has many more speed ,agility and reflex showings to make this statement a belivable one. so now giving spiderman a run for his money in the speed department is PIS because it contradicts his character and powers, however when daredevil is fighting evenly vs streets is ok. double standard? the thing with bats is that it is PIS because he simply doesnt have the stats and the overall showings to suggest he can match super humans in the speed department. you know deathstroke tagging flash and such? thats PIS. but when a character like matt, who consistantly has those levels of speed and reflex, as well as radar powers, is able to match spiderman for a while... thats actually fine.
i never claimed daredevil has super human speed on those levels . i never said that daredevil is only getting hit when he is tricked, you brought up that fight. this is very funny actually the way you are trying to twist things its really amusing. so now you are lowballing matt, even with the fact the majority of his fights clearly indicate he is faster and more agile than most streets, like when he fights punisher, made namor look like a slow brick, was faster than cap, spiderman fights, too fast for even wolverine atc atc, but then you bring bane as an example and now trying to claim bane without venom has super human speed and reflex? thats straight up lying already. like seriously. please show us banes insane fighting speed and reflex. killer croc and grandy? i am sorry is that suppose to mean something? yeah sure grundy and killer croc are speedsters now Lol. as for them being one shotted? grundy has many forms very weak and very strong. killer croc is a loser. daredevil one shotted wolverine and one shotted mister hyde with pressure points. matt actually stated he can kill his opponents easily via special deadly striking points but he is not using those techniques. bats thruought his career is getting tagged by bricks like bane, croc, and whos not. outspeeding his opponent in fighting is not in his character. he is actually one of the slower street levelers out there. and dodging bullets is something everybody does, whats impressive about the bullseye feat, is the fact bullseye threw multiple cards at matt and he was catching them one after another. it shows great reflex and speed movement. you know batman wouldnt be able to do that. he would just block those cards with his wrist armor.
again we dont know when batman began to move. as you pointed out yourself, batman planed that heat vision strike. so he could easily calculate when to start moving before superman fires the heat vision in order for him to hit the target. the showing doesnt tell us when exactly batman began to move so we can easily assume he moves before superman fires the shot. the scan can show him already in movement. maybe superman screamed burt before he began to shoot and then batman moved. the scan is not enough to tell us. superman doesnt fire his heat vision at the mere nanosecond he thinks to fire. it takes time to fire the heat vision after his decision. otherwise, are you trying to suggest batman is faster than the speed of light? when i bring my reasons for daredevil having the edge in fighting speed i bring feats that are still true to his stats and overall showings and character. suggesting batman is faster than speed of light... is well a little stretch i would say no?
Last edited by Dareangel on Mar 10th, 2017 at 06:16 PM
i was trying to give a decent explanation to that mess. but if you want to take it at full value fine. so are you suggesting that either batman is faster than the flash, or another option is that batman is faster than the speed of light? or third option is just PIS. again, i pointed out showings for daredevil that are true to his character and the majority of his showings. but a showing that supposdly present batman as faster than the speed of light? really?
Last edited by Dareangel on Mar 11th, 2017 at 07:30 AM
Batman is essentially a mortal, flawed, insane, low-herald, and with planning and tech can reach even higher than that.
Even the major arcs that have really delved into his mortality, really showed how ****ing inhuman and nigh unstoppable he is, like RIP and Knightfall.
How do you think Daredevil would do against dozens of Manbat serum enhanced assassins, or a ton of regenerating super-soldier Talons?
Could he beat Lobo, or Aquaman? Go at it with the Man of Steel on a couple dozen occasions?
How would he handle New Gods?
Grundy? Grodd?
Do you really believe these characters are remotely similar in talent?
Daredevil wins if Batman has a very bad day, or bad week, prior to their meeting. If he's optimal it's not even fair.
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Last edited by Juntai on Mar 11th, 2017 at 08:33 AM
please read my posts. i began my conversation in this thread by addressing someone who thought there is a gap of 3 points between batman and daredevil ad far as skills while the gap between batman and karate kid is 2. it is clear this guy thought the gap between daredevil and batman is a respected one, and i replied to him. my secondary argument was that daredevil has a slight edge in fighting speed and reflex vs batman. you are bringing a whole different argument now of who will win. i can discuss it as well but just wanted to point out for you my arguments so far. as far as their whole fight? if batman is getting prep and gadgets he wins. its something even daredevil fans should admit. if its a straight H2H fight without any prep, i give a slight edge to daredevil based on his senses mostly, speed, reflex, agility, and fighting skills. not saying he tops batman in each of those categories but combined i think he will take a majority. batman IMO has strength(very slightly), stamina and damage soak over daredevil.
Meh, not to that extent. IF we assume the presence of superpowers.
OTOH, Batman is, in all his handbooks/origins etc, human. But he has mastered 127 fighting styles (armed and unarmed), WHILST being fluent in XYZ different languages, WHILST mastering advanced engineering and science skills, WHILST being Olympic level in weightlifting, sprinting, and marathons, a skilled CEO, an expert in lockpicking, disguises, acting etc....
Whilst partying hard enough to be the Paris Hilton of his universe.
Matt is a highly skilled lawyer, who has mastered 2 or 3 styles of fighting, and has superpowers. Sure, he has the showings of strength and speed etc, that enable him to tangle with superpowered people, but he's not as extreme as Bats. Who seems to be maxed out on all his stats with regards to skills.
That's what makes me like that madman called Bruce. What you said is absolutely correct ...as much as I may harp against Steve Rogers for not being 'peak human' even if that's what the SSS was supposed to do, some of the things Bruce does go beyond any semblance of human.
I'm sure it is some sort of running joke at DC. Cleverly done, craftily hidden, by making Bruce, in many ways, the true super man. The real ubermensch. Not Kal El.
And there are many examples, some listed on this thread. Others more subtle, like him being able to sit on the Möbius chair and survive, or the whole Thogal ability that went beyond simply quieting his heart to even creating hidden personalities.
However, there is one even simpler. Cleverly hidden in the open.
Batman is a member of the JLA, a group comprised of demigods and veritable monsters.
It's like that warning of being wary of the skinny short white kid hanging around with gangbangers. He's the most dangerous of the lot.
A true mad man, and more than a man.
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Last edited by spetznaz on Mar 11th, 2017 at 02:10 PM
yes just like Cap he has that jobber aura when he fights super human characters. we can only see who he really is when fighting characters around his own class. but then again, super human characters also getting their ass handed to them by streets. its confusing... who is the street and who is the super???
Going by overall feats though, if Batman was a 12 KK would in reality be like a 1200.
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Feb 27th, 2017 02:04 PM
that Bats can't compete when he has stalemated better like Karate Kid.
. i never said that daredevil is only getting hit when he is tricked, you brought up that fight. this is very funny actually the way you are trying to twist things its really amusing. so now you are lowballing matt, even with the fact the majority of his fights clearly indicate he is faster and more agile than most streets, like when he fights punisher, made namor look like a slow brick, was faster than cap, spiderman fights, too fast for even wolverine atc atc, but then you bring bane as an example and now trying to claim bane without venom has super human speed and reflex? thats straight up lying already. like seriously. please show us banes insane fighting speed and reflex. killer croc and grandy? i am sorry is that suppose to mean something? yeah sure grundy and killer croc are speedsters now Lol. as for them being one shotted? grundy has many forms very weak and very strong. killer croc is a loser. daredevil one shotted wolverine and one shotted mister hyde with pressure points. matt actually stated he can kill his opponents easily via special deadly striking points but he is not using those techniques. bats thruought his career is getting tagged by bricks like bane, croc, and whos not. outspeeding his opponent in fighting is not in his character. he is actually one of the slower street levelers out there. and dodging bullets is something everybody does, whats impressive about the bullseye feat, is the fact bullseye threw multiple cards at matt and he was catching them one after another. it shows great reflex and speed movement. you know batman wouldnt be able to do that. he would just block those cards with his wrist armor.
