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T3 a complete rehash of T2?
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Doctor-Alvis
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Why would she not believe in Terminators?


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Old Post Jul 20th, 2009 08:29 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Why would she not believe in Terminators?
Her therapy worked.

In MIIB Agent K forgot all about aliens, and it worked, in my eyes.


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Old Post Jul 20th, 2009 06:48 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by lord xyz
Her therapy worked.

In MIIB Agent K forgot all about aliens, and it worked, in my eyes.

But they used super advanced brainwashing devices to do that, not therapy.


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Old Post Jul 21st, 2009 09:03 AM
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They could of put Sarah in a coma perhaps after her cancer spread to her brain? When she woke up she forgot certain things, or everything. Just an idea, not sure if it's plausible.


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Old Post Jul 21st, 2009 04:01 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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How action capable are people who have enough cancer in their brain that it causes brain damage?


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Old Post Jul 21st, 2009 09:13 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
But they used super advanced brainwashing devices to do that, not therapy.
Oh, well then they brainwashed Sarah Conner.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by barand1
They could of put Sarah in a coma perhaps after her cancer spread to her brain? When she woke up she forgot certain things, or everything. Just an idea, not sure if it's plausible.
It could work. Just the idea of refreshing someone's memory up until the point they realise their mission and become badass is awesome.


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Old Post Jul 21st, 2009 09:43 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
How action capable are people who have enough cancer in their brain that it causes brain damage?


I have no idea... but maybe during surgery things went wrong confused


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Old Post Jul 21st, 2009 11:58 PM
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LindaHamilton32
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Hi guys. Thanks for all the great feedback. Sorry i have been away for a few days.T2 was INTENDED to be a revised more up to date version of T1. Even James Cameron said it. The similarities between T1 and T2 were intentional.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terminator 1984 was done out of an imagination process of James Cameron. He had limited resources and he could only do a very limited version of his vision.

A few Box Office hits later he was established as a great action director and he decided to revisit his "baby" project once more. With brand new resources and more artistic freedom he was able to do T2. He did what was possibly the best "reboot" ever. He took the basic elements from his 1984 movie and did it Not exactly the same, but similar.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There is no argument here.

In Simpler terms.....

He made T1 and later since he had a much bigger budget and more SFX he made what he thought was a better version of T1. He did not made an official "remake" but he mainly made a better version of it.

Similar to what George Miller did with Mad Max and The Road Warrior.

Jonathon Mostow in the other hand along with producers and writers decided to cash in on Terminator 2's popularity and set out to recreate the glorious hit from 1991. You see James Cameron's a real mastermind and ARTIST in every sense of the word. He himself said that the similarirites in T2 are like rhymes in a poem to the first movie, done intentionally of course to mirror them but not be the same.


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"Despite all the action of the Terminator movies, they were actually pretty high-minded. There was really a message there about the human condition, and Terminator 3 had no regard for human life whatsoever." - Linda Hamilton on T3
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Last edited by LindaHamilton32 on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 03:29 PM

Old Post Jul 23rd, 2009 03:25 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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What's your source on this information?


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Old Post Jul 24th, 2009 02:36 AM
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LindaHamilton32
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Thank you for all the feedback. Okay back on topic. I posted this a while ago but feel it belongs here too.When i say T3 is a rip-off of T2,Im not judging wheter its good or bad, that was intentional from the producers since T2 was such a well acclaimed hit, so they wanted more of that.Even Vajna and Kassar admiteed to it, saying they wanted to recreate their glorious hit.I always felt t3's greatest weakness was that it played way too much homage to T2 when it could have been a great film on it's own. I actually enjoyed it for what it is. The only thing that kills it is the overload of humor.Plus no Linda Hamilton. I really missed her in T3.I would have loved to have seen her go out in a blaze of glory in T3 rather than being killed of with cancer which i thought was kind of weak for such an iconic character. She should have been the one holding those blast doors open for John ands Kate.Anyway thanks again


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"Despite all the action of the Terminator movies, they were actually pretty high-minded. There was really a message there about the human condition, and Terminator 3 had no regard for human life whatsoever." - Linda Hamilton on T3
Me and my good friend Linda Hamilton:
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Old Post Jul 25th, 2009 10:49 AM
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That pretty much sums up every terminator fan's opinion.

Honestly, anyone who hates T3, isn't a fan of Terminator at all.


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Old Post Jul 25th, 2009 11:49 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LindaHamilton32
Thank you for all the feedback. Okay back on topic. I posted this a while ago but feel it belongs here too.When i say T3 is a rip-off of T2,Im not judging wheter its good or bad, that was intentional from the producers since T2 was such a well acclaimed hit, so they wanted more of that.Even Vajna and Kassar admiteed to it, saying they wanted to recreate their glorious hit.

Source?

quote:
Plus no Linda Hamilton. I really missed her in T3.I would have loved to have seen her go out in a blaze of glory in T3 rather than being killed of with cancer which i thought was kind of weak for such an iconic character. She should have been the one holding those blast doors open for John ands Kate.Anyway thanks again

I think I like the coffin thing more than any kind of blaze of glory I can think of, especially for a 45~ year old woman. Maybe it's just me. I like the brains over brawn.


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2009 04:34 PM
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LindaHamilton32
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by lord xyz
That pretty much sums up every terminator fan's opinion.

Honestly, anyone who hates T3, isn't a fan of Terminator at all.


Hi there. How are you today?Don't get me wrong i like T3 for what it is and that is a respectable summer action movie. The crane chase sequence throught LA in particular is a great action set-piece.IMO it is not the masterpiece that is Terminator 2 but there's enough heart in it.My biggest beef as i have said before was the slapstick humour. I thought it was too far.But i also liked:
- The action was nicely done and had great effects.
- Stahl as John Connor was good. He really looked like the child of Linda Hamilton and Michael Biehn.
- Great opening (didn't miss the credits) and ending.
- Tightly paced and short so it never got bogged down.

I just wish it wasn't so reliant on the T2 formula that is all.And Linda Hamilton had reprised Sarah. Thanks for reading.Hope you have a good day.


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"Despite all the action of the Terminator movies, they were actually pretty high-minded. There was really a message there about the human condition, and Terminator 3 had no regard for human life whatsoever." - Linda Hamilton on T3
Me and my good friend Linda Hamilton:
http://files.myopera.com/DieInCries...HamiltonPam.jpg

Last edited by LindaHamilton32 on Jul 27th, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Old Post Jul 27th, 2009 10:05 AM
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LindaHamilton32
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Terminator 1984 was done out of an imagination process of James Cameron. He had limited resources and he could only do a very limited version of his vision.

A few Box Office hits later he was established as a great action director and he decided to revisit his "baby" project once more. With brand new recources and more artistic freedom he was able to do T2. He did what was possibly the best "reboot" ever. He took the basic elements from his 1984 movie and did it Not exactly the same, but similar.

Then comes Mostow and decides to do his own version of T2.

You have to see that he practically did the entire movie shot by shot.

Here they are and have in mind that the order of these avents is the SAME in T2 and T3.

1. Future War vision at beginning of movie - Check
2. 2 Terminators arriving at night in different locations - Check
3. T-800/850 getting his clothes (leather biker style) from a Bar playing music - Check
4. T-800/850 getting sunglasses - Check
5. After some dialogue to establish characters we have a Slo-Mo scene of T-800/850 walking towards John as he "does not know" if he's there to kill him - Check
6. Big truck chase sequence where the Bad Guy has the upper hand in terms of Size - Check
7. Cue John's impending doom at the hand of the Bad Guy as the T-800/850 saves him at the last moment causing the Big Truck to explode in a very "spectacular" way - Check
8. John and Terminator are trapped in a location surrounded by cops - Check
9. Let the terminator have a BIG gun to "deal" with the cops although he does not kill anyone - Check
10. In the middle of their escape the Bad Guy finds them escaping their location and starts to pursue inflicting grave damage to John's vehicle - Check

After that there are many similarities but each one had their own ending to attend (thank God).

But as you see the "Mostow" version of T2 is very lame, campy and did not provided anything new to the franchise. In fact it actually created bigger holes than ever.


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"Despite all the action of the Terminator movies, they were actually pretty high-minded. There was really a message there about the human condition, and Terminator 3 had no regard for human life whatsoever." - Linda Hamilton on T3
Me and my good friend Linda Hamilton:
http://files.myopera.com/DieInCries...HamiltonPam.jpg

Old Post Jul 28th, 2009 01:05 PM
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I agree, there is a lot to pick from. I still like it.


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Last edited by Raz on Jan 1st 2000 at 00:00AM

Old Post Jul 28th, 2009 03:05 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LindaHamilton32
Terminator 1984 was done out of an imagination process of James Cameron. He had limited resources and he could only do a very limited version of his vision.

A few Box Office hits later he was established as a great action director and he decided to revisit his "baby" project once more. With brand new recources and more artistic freedom he was able to do T2. He did what was possibly the best "reboot" ever. He took the basic elements from his 1984 movie and did it Not exactly the same, but similar.

SOOOURRRRRRRRCE?

quote:
Then comes Mostow and decides to do his own version of T2.

You have to see that he practically did the entire movie shot by shot.

Here they are and have in mind that the order of these avents is the SAME in T2 and T3.

1. Future War vision at beginning of movie - Check
2. 2 Terminators arriving at night in different locations - Check
3. T-800/850 getting his clothes (leather biker style) from a Bar playing music - Check
4. T-800/850 getting sunglasses - Check
5. After some dialogue to establish characters we have a Slo-Mo scene of T-800/850 walking towards John as he "does not know" if he's there to kill him - Check
6. Big truck chase sequence where the Bad Guy has the upper hand in terms of Size - Check
7. Cue John's impending doom at the hand of the Bad Guy as the T-800/850 saves him at the last moment causing the Big Truck to explode in a very "spectacular" way - Check
8. John and Terminator are trapped in a location surrounded by cops - Check
9. Let the terminator have a BIG gun to "deal" with the cops although he does not kill anyone - Check
10. In the middle of their escape the Bad Guy finds them escaping their location and starts to pursue inflicting grave damage to John's vehicle - Check

After that there are many similarities but each one had their own ending to attend (thank God).

But as you see the "Mostow" version of T2 is very lame, campy and did not provided anything new to the franchise. In fact it actually created bigger holes than ever.

This isn't music theory, or a fine sauce to be poured on noodles. That comparison, like the one on the website, butchers both movie plots and reduces them down to make the matches. I'm not saying they aren't very similar, but you're just trying way too hard.


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Old Post Jul 28th, 2009 10:04 PM
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LindaHamilton32
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Hi Doctor-Alvis how are you? THanks for your feedback.

There are similar situations for the new characters, and thats it - and THATS the echoing theme. In case of T3, it has identical storyline, plot and even the order of the story to the point where you can tell both movies with one description. Thats a completely different thing
T1 was a love story about a soldier with sucky life and pushed around goofy waitress, which showed evolution of both characters. T2 was about paternal love between mother and son and her struggle with her sanity, morality and feelings, as well as a story of human life with two "robots' going at it. Those are completely different movies, and like I said T2 only has about 4 elements like that. And they all have purpose. for example, the 'death' of the T-800. Cameron's goal here was to create the same scene with Sarah killing the T-800 with the press of a button, but this time to feel pathos and sadness instead of relief and satisfaction. Sam characters and same move, yet a complete turntable on the emotions. Brilliant move if you ask me, very nicely done. And again, those moves are equivalent to rhymes in the poem

This is a very commonly heard miscinception and misunderstanding. Thats why I sometimes I prefer for Cameron to just go with straight ahead movie rather than packing artistic and literary elements to it. See, this is one of the things that blew me away when we were dissecting T2 when I was studying screenwriting and then filmmaking at the NY Film Academy. He doesnt repeat or remake the first movie. What it is its echoing theme - finding the same situation but slightly altered and with different characters, mirroring same events but with different outcome. Its another literary device used in filmaking. very tricky to use and personally for me was the toughest cause its really hard to make it work. Its ALSO on T2 commentary, and there its explained even more and compared to rhymes in the poem. Star Wars is another example of a story built on echoing theme. Lucas goes into even more details about echoing themes/story rhymes on EI DVD featurettes as well as DVD commentary for EII.thats why I sometimes wonder if it wouldnt be better for Cameron to just make his movies simplier since 90% of the population dont know about rhymes and artistic nuances like that. I just think its a wasted effort. Thats waht the UK professor sdaid when Cameron was being given the Dr title, that 90% of the population isnt intelligent enought to get his movies.Not only most people wonty see it and wont notice any of the subliminal touches (same goes for sound - for example, theres an actual Lion's growl when the truck is closing in during the final highway chase in T2, subliminaly signaling the feel of danger), but theyll also think its a rehash or lazy writing or copying. *sight*. And story rhymes are the hardest to do , at least were for me. Oh well.

Btw, if any of you want to know more about those so called rhymes, let me know. Plenty of people dont know anything about them and take them for copying instead, so I might do a feature on it and collect quotes about them from Lucas, Spielberg and Cameron

Btw, Mostow on the T3 commentary says he doesnt even know why terminators come back naked


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"Despite all the action of the Terminator movies, they were actually pretty high-minded. There was really a message there about the human condition, and Terminator 3 had no regard for human life whatsoever." - Linda Hamilton on T3
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Old Post Jul 29th, 2009 11:21 AM
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Doctor-Alvis
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I don't want to know about rhymes in movies, I want a source on James Cameron saying he made Terminator 2 as a redo of Terminator 1. I don't want your analysis, I want a link to a video or an article or something where he says it.


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Old Post Jul 29th, 2009 01:35 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I don't want to know about rhymes in movies, I want a source on James Cameron saying he made Terminator 2 as a redo of Terminator 1. I don't want your analysis, I want a link to a video or an article or something where he says it.


Hi. Thanks for your reply. Most of my info i got from here:
http://jamescamerononline.com/

Here are some things i would have liked in T3.
- Narration from Linda Hamilton. I understand Linda turning it down and her character being dead, but if she can lend her voice to Terminator Salvation, she could've done so here.
- Took out the painful slapstick comedy e.g talk to the hand
- Music themes at atmosphere from the first two movies, including the blue tint.
- Shortening or skipping the whole clothes acquiring scenes altogether. We know the drill by now.
- Not seeing so many painful mistakes (age of John/Sarah Connor, machine takeover of cars, the damn tail number on the plane, etc.)

What do you think? I'd appreciate your thoughts.


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"Despite all the action of the Terminator movies, they were actually pretty high-minded. There was really a message there about the human condition, and Terminator 3 had no regard for human life whatsoever." - Linda Hamilton on T3
Me and my good friend Linda Hamilton:
http://files.myopera.com/DieInCries...HamiltonPam.jpg

Old Post Aug 1st, 2009 11:54 AM
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Doctor-Alvis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LindaHamilton32
Hi. Thanks for your reply. Most of my info i got from here:
http://jamescamerononline.com/

Where on this site? Is it an official statement? Because this is a fansite and not associated with James Cameron directly.

quote:
Here are some things i would have liked in T3.
- Narration from Linda Hamilton. I understand Linda turning it down and her character being dead, but if she can lend her voice to Terminator Salvation, she could've done so here.
- Took out the painful slapstick comedy e.g talk to the hand
- Music themes at atmosphere from the first two movies, including the blue tint.
- Shortening or skipping the whole clothes acquiring scenes altogether. We know the drill by now.
- Not seeing so many painful mistakes (age of John/Sarah Connor, machine takeover of cars, the damn tail number on the plane, etc.)

What do you think? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

I can see your point on most of those bullets but the "painful mistakes" list seems more nitpicking than anything else. The worst one for me would probably be the taking over of cars. I don't know much about cars so I don't know if maybe they have vehicles that steer and throttle electronically. Tail numbers on the plane though? What? Are you complaining about the plane's registry or whatever the crap goes on the tail? Unless the numbers are formed by etchings of gay sex, I don't think they matter.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2009 04:52 PM
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