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DC strength levels, Where exactly is Supes?
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Sirius77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Superboy Prime makes Guardians look like pussies and Superman working with a large group of superheroes couldn't hold him down when a ray of sunlight so much as shined on his hand.

I'm sorry, I can't bring myself to think that Superman was holding back to the extent that his full strength would be the equal of every other superhero that was holding Prime plus his own "holding back" levels. Since that is what he would have to have to equal Prime.

Superman has outright admitted he cannot match Prime in a contest of might.

Superboy Prime was meant to be more powerful, I think that is kinda clear IMO.


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Old Post Jan 14th, 2012 05:58 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Superboy Prime makes Guardians look like pussies and Superman working with a large group of superheroes couldn't hold him down when a ray of sunlight so much as shined on his hand.

I'm sorry, I can't bring myself to think that Superman was holding back to the extent that his full strength would be the equal of every other superhero that was holding Prime plus his own "holding back" levels. Since that is what he would have to have to equal Prime.

Superman has outright admitted he cannot match Prime in a contest of might.

Superboy Prime was meant to be more powerful, I think that is kinda clear IMO.


Superman has made plenty of so-called uber beings look pretty bad too.


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Old Post Jan 14th, 2012 11:55 AM
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NemeBro
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That isn't anywhere near as relevant as the "Superman plus a bunch of other super strong heroes could not hold him down when he received a glimmer of sunlight".

Based on showings between the two, Superboy Prime is demonstratably stronger.


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Old Post Jan 14th, 2012 10:48 PM
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abhilegend
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Pre-DOS doomsday took a guardian's suicide attack without any discomfort. Prime has done nothing that makes him many times stronger than superman. He is stronger than superman but not much. Moving planets, Mon-el moved a star to another solar system and kal koed him while suffocating.


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Old Post Jan 16th, 2012 06:25 AM
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Sirius77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Pre-DOS doomsday took a guardian's suicide attack without any discomfort. Prime has done nothing that makes him many times stronger than superman. He is stronger than superman but not much. Moving planets, Mon-el moved a star to another solar system and kal koed him while suffocating.


I see what you're saying, but that wasn't just one Guardian suicide attack though. There were several involved, and it wasn't just for the purpose of destroying him, but rather bfring him.

When did Mon-el move a star? Not saying he didn't, because it's well within the power of most Kryptonian level beings imo, but jw.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2012 09:39 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
That isn't anywhere near as relevant as the "Superman plus a bunch of other super strong heroes could not hold him down when he received a glimmer of sunlight".

Based on showings between the two, Superboy Prime is demonstratably stronger.


Why isn't it relevant?


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Old Post Jan 16th, 2012 10:39 PM
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Sirius77
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Considering all that Prime has done in the relatively short amount of time that he's been around, I'd say it's less relevant based upon the fact that Prime is shown to be consistently stronger, faster, and more durable.

Simply put, is there any evidence to suggest that superman could take on 3 legions+ an amped Bart and himself and still gain the upper hand? How about tank a blast that injured the AM, and still take on the sc+ the glc and multiple guardians and laugh it off? I just can't see how it's remotely possible that superman is on this level. He has dynamic strength, yes, but that doesn't make him Prime's peer.

Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 03:10 AM
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JakeTheBank
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Superman's entire history is full of him doing incredibly absurd shit, though. The guy practically invented WTF worthy feats.


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Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 03:25 AM
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Sirius77
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I definitely can't disagree with that, but that's kind of my point though. For the relatively brief time in which Prime has appeared (not counting silver age of course), he's taken on top-tiers like potato chips, and had enough wtf worthy feats for most to consider him a plot device by himself.

Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 07:39 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sirius77
Considering all that Prime has done in the relatively short amount of time that he's been around, I'd say it's less relevant based upon the fact that Prime is shown to be consistently stronger, faster, and more durable.

Simply put, is there any evidence to suggest that superman could take on 3 legions+ an amped Bart and himself and still gain the upper hand? How about tank a blast that injured the AM, and still take on the sc+ the glc and multiple guardians and laugh it off? I just can't see how it's remotely possible that superman is on this level. He has dynamic strength, yes, but that doesn't make him Prime's peer.

Superman koed Earth-man with the power of entire legion with one punch, prime had the help of mordru and every villain on that prison planet to take on legion and a comics flash isn't a forum flash. Kal took many punches from time trapper SBP and was still going strong. How about shattering the body of soulfire darkseid and tanking source wall getting destroyed. Kal has taken on every hero on earth under hector hammond's mind control and battled true PC superboy to a standstill. Prime was amped by Alex for moving planet IIRC. Prime is stronger but not by much.


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Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 11:10 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman's entire history is full of him doing incredibly absurd shit, though. The guy practically invented WTF worthy feats.


Pretty much. I mean, Prime was impressive, but I don't see him doing anything that Superman himself couldn't do for the most part.


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Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 06:27 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
Why isn't it relevant?
It isn't as relevant as Prime being decidedly more than a match for Superman every time they have appeared in a comic together. Refresh my memory: When has Superman been portrayed as anything but decidedly weaker than Prime when they appeared together?

Also, abhil, Prime was not amped by Alexander Luthor Jr. when he was moving planets at FTL speeds.


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Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 07:50 PM
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Galan007
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Supes already admitted that he could not stop Prime without some major help:
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2223/014cm.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/453/015016.jpg

Also recall that during IC, Supes teamed up with Kal-L, and together they resorted to ramming Prime through a red star just to depower him. I doubt Supes would have gone to such an extreme if he alone were capable of beating Prime via fisticuffs. /shrug


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Old Post Jan 17th, 2012 10:11 PM
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Sirius77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman koed Earth-man with the power of entire legion with one punch, prime had the help of mordru and every villain on that prison planet to take on legion and a comics flash isn't a forum flash. Kal took many punches from time trapper SBP and was still going strong. How about shattering the body of soulfire darkseid and tanking source wall getting destroyed. Kal has taken on every hero on earth under hector hammond's mind control and battled true PC superboy to a standstill. Prime was amped by Alex for moving planet IIRC. Prime is stronger but not by much.


One man with the power of the legion does not equate to multiple legionaires attacking simultaneously. It should also be noted that Superman was among the legion when Prime was walking through them. As was Ion-Guardian Sadam-Yat with 1,000 years of experience. Prime pretty much brushed him and his constructs off.


There isn't a difference between forum flash and regular Flash if the character's feats are actually being taken into account, and the person arguing him knows the character's limits. Also, like I said before, every time that Prime has had a bad showing involving a Flash, they have either outnumbered him, been amped, or a combination of the two. In the case of LO3W, it was the latter.

When did Kal tank the source wall being destroyed? I mean I remember the collision of Apocalypse and NG, but was it during DOTNG? That was pretty beastly, considering he was the only one that wasn't shielded, but Prime tanked something that the AM and Henshaw were injured by, then proceeded to bfr the AM. If we are comparing feats, we could go on forever, but every feat that you give of Superman's I can probably list a better one for Prime tbh. The difference is that Post Crisis Superman has been around for 20+ years, while Prime was just brought back for 6. It's not a bad thing imo, it just is what it is. Prime is just simply all around more powerful. It's been stated, shown, and reiterated.

Prime wasn't amped by Alex during that, he was at best at a manageable level. He was weakened during the retcon punch though iirc.

Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 12:52 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sirius77
Prime tanked something that the AM and Henshaw were injured by, then proceeded to bfr the AM.
Prime also tanked anti-matter energy, as well as a universe-busting blast.

His damage-soak is unprecedented.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 01:13 AM
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Sirius77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Prime also tanked anti-matter energy, as well as a universe-busting blast.

His damage-soak is unprecedented.


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I almost forgot about the anti-matter. The amount of things that he has been able to walk away from is staggering, and the fact that he was able to just sit there and just tank antimatter straight from the AM is pretty insane.

Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 02:28 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sirius77
One man with the power of the legion does not equate to multiple legionaires attacking simultaneously. It should also be noted that Superman was among the legion when Prime was walking through them. As was Ion-Guardian Sadam-Yat with 1,000 years of experience. Prime pretty much brushed him and his constructs off.



What does that even mean? Earth-man defeated entire legion in one blast and had entire legion's power. Superman koed him with a single punch shortly after gaining his powers back.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...Superman/15.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...Superman/16.jpg

Sodam is a jobber and was out of commission for 1000 years, like sinestro said to Hal that he was rusty after not using his ring. Anyway kal has taken on entire gl corps for 50 years in the future
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/...upesglcorps.jpg

quote:
There isn't a difference between forum flash and regular Flash if the character's feats are actually being taken into account, and the person arguing him knows the character's limits. Also, like I said before, every time that Prime has had a bad showing involving a Flash, they have either outnumbered him, been amped, or a combination of the two. In the case of LO3W, it was the latter.


Are you kidding me? "Forum flash" is unbeatable, comics flash not so much. XS had trouble with going lightspeed with the same amp, so it was not so big of an amp. Tell me about a time superman got beat by a flash
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/...ct/flashout.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/...t/flashout2.jpg

quote:
When did Kal tank the source wall being destroyed? I mean I remember the collision of Apocalypse and NG, but was it during DOTNG? That was pretty beastly, considering he was the only one that wasn't shielded, but Prime tanked something that the AM and Henshaw were injured by, then proceeded to bfr the AM. If we are comparing feats, we could go on forever, but every feat that you give of Superman's I can probably list a better one for Prime tbh. The difference is that Post Crisis Superman has been around for 20+ years, while Prime was just brought back for 6. It's not a bad thing imo, it just is what it is. Prime is just simply all around more powerful. It's been stated, shown, and reiterated.


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...OTNG7p21-22.jpg

Nobody's arguing about if Prime's stronger than superman but that kal has the feats to match his showings.

quote:
Prime wasn't amped by Alex during that, he was at best at a manageable level. He was weakened during the retcon punch though iirc.


I thought alex amped him for that. I've to re-read Infinite crisis secret files.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 06:14 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Supes already admitted that he could not stop Prime without some major help:
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2223/014cm.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/453/015016.jpg

Also recall that during IC, Supes teamed up with Kal-L, and together they resorted to ramming Prime through a red star just to depower him. I doubt Supes would have gone to such an extreme if he alone were capable of beating Prime via fisticuffs. /shrug


Not surprising since its Geoff johns and his villains are always more powerful than heroes. But kal has defeated and stalemated people on Prime's level like Pre-zero hour Mon-el, pocket dimension superboy and Cythonna. I think he was thinking of a quick solution and we can't forget he was constantly fighting for days before that IIRC even fighting through nearly every villain in metropolis.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 06:28 AM
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Sirius77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
What does that even mean? Earth-man defeated entire legion in one blast and had entire legion's power. Superman koed him with a single punch shortly after gaining his powers back.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...Superman/15.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...Superman/16.jpg

Sodam is a jobber and was out of commission for 1000 years, like sinestro said to Hal that he was rusty after not using his ring. Anyway kal has taken on entire gl corps for 50 years in the future
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/...upesglcorps.jpg



Are you kidding me? "Forum flash" is unbeatable, comics flash not so much. XS had trouble with going lightspeed with the same amp, so it was not so big of an amp. Tell me about a time superman got beat by a flash
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/...ct/flashout.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/...t/flashout2.jpg



http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...OTNG7p21-22.jpg

Nobody's arguing about if Prime's stronger than superman but that kal has the feats to match his showings.



I thought alex amped him for that. I've to re-read Infinite crisis secret files.


That was just Saturn Girl, Lightning Lass, Lightning Lad, and Phantom Girl.... Prime had enough and threw off three Kryptonian level beings (Mon-el, Andromeda, and Superman himself) and two Cosmic Boys.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/...ffthelegion.jpg

So while Superman took on Earthman using the powers of four legionaries and KOed him (not certain if he was using Superman's powers too, it's been awhile since I've read the arc), Prime took on all of that plus superman and two of his peers.

Well, yeah, he was holding them off for 50 years, but I mean Prime did kill 32 in a single sitting after running through a 300 mile thick wall of pure willpower sustained by all their collective wills including Hal and Guy's. I literally have no idea how many Gls (and sc) members that he took out during the SC arc. He seemed to be just tearing through them. Also, it should be noted that Sodam's ring warned him that Prime might kill him, even with his Guardian-Ion status. Say what you will about Sodam, but he isn't weak, especially after 1,000 years, a daxamite physiology, as many rings as he wants, and access to all of the remaining energy from the gl corps.

No. Really not kidding man. That Flash was behaving like he was on drugs haha. It certainly wasn't the mid-range Wally that I know.... he jobbed pretty hard, and un-intelligently at that. If you use a Flash that doesn't have lead in his boots and doesn't get beaten by evil kara but suffocating himself, then he'll definitely take wins from Supes. If you want to use low feats for the flash, then be my guest, but understand, that for every low feat, there are multiple ridiculously high ones. Also, XS didn't recieve the amp until Bart returned. They were both amped by Barry's return--enough so that XS was actually powerful enough to take on Prime with Bart instead of hanging by the sidelines.

Oh that feat, that is pretty damn uber, but like I said, Prime tanks galaxy busters, and get KOed by universe busters. The only other two times that he was legitimately KOed was during the LO3W arc when he and the TT were blasted simultaneously by the collective Legions from 3 universes.... and he passed out, woke up, and was ready for battle, and during the Teen Titans farce lol. The rest were while depowered.

Nah, he wasn't amped, he just pushed em' lol.

Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 08:20 AM
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Nephthys
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Prime is such a tool.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2012 07:59 PM
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