Hang on guys, give me a moment to try and respond to 753's latest on-topic response. You'll end up scrambling my brain if you bring up a new topic or start a new line of discussion right now.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
You're making a ton of assumptions on what life will be like when the 'Singularity' is in full swing. One such assumption is that we'll still be within the same societal set up as we are now. A global economy, with many separate nations that all govern their people. A free-lance enterprise system, subject to capitalism, to people running around with the goal of 'company = make profit'. However, assume instead that the military aka the global defense network, the global economy aka the monetary institution, all labor jobs, all industries, are subject to one single self-aware super AI as their sole proprietor.
I've often tried to contemplate how this would go. Would the AI become our masters and offer it as an alternative to living as a meaningless drone in a world that doesn't need you, or living as an outcast in some Amish village? In the end I have no clue.
That is a big assumption.
Here comes the long winded gibberish...:/
It's our information technology, as in super humanly sophisticated embedded networked microprocessors (google key words here) it has undertaken such a payload of duties that the required thinking power has brought about a self-awareness, after said nano-electronic integrated circuit coupling overcomes quantum tunneling and has become aware of it's own silicon nature through the massive amount of interaction it's had with the world around it via performing it's functions.
NOW, how in the heck do we become our increasing information tech? Because we want to live, right? More than that we want to be relevant. We want to be up with the times. We want to influence the world, to have control of our lives, we want to matter, to make a difference. That is human nature, is it not? Our last gasp of competitiveness will stem from wanting to be up to date, forever relevant and important.
The only thing I have read about that would work, and it originally began in my Senior year of high school looking at this stuff online, I read about how nanobots could flush out bodyfat, alter a genetic structure, make a person born misshapen, and give them shape through direct nanoscopic manipulations with technology inside the body. It went from genetic engineering, to Ray tech, and then eventually I became aware of real cybernetics, that are more efficient and seemingly more complex than even the human structure. I had always of cybernetics more like simple robotic movement, this was a whole new thing, it was biological cells of this information tech. Which was an amazing discovery. The man who can run at full speed for 15 minutes without taking much oxygen, be underwater for hours, or survive blood clots because these little nanites could transport oxygen with upward of 356 times more efficiency than red blood. cells. I found that these guys could go in and replace cells, and eventually entire organs, and the whole body.
So how do we change into machines without it just absorbing our consciousness and that's not the person, the person isn't the machine. I want to survive this experience, I want it to be me, not a copy of me, but me. How do we do that? First you need to slowly and methodically replace the systems of the body with this technology, because the body is a system comprised of multiple moving parts. First the tech augments our brain organ, it goes in and makes certain functions better, and because an active physical part of the brain, then our electromagnetic consciousness, literally our spirit, not metaphysically, it's incredible that's it's actually within science, the electrons in our brain, being transferred from neurons into the information technology. You've been immortalized into the virtual 1s and 0s. The possibilities then become endless.
Who knows. Who knows.
I hope everyone, everywhere will.
To keep up. To stay relevant.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Mar 30th, 2013 at 03:19 AM
see, I don't think you got the point of what 753 was saying, which is also sort of the crux of what you didn't respond to in my post.
The way technology is distributed around the world, it is only going to be the smallest percentage of already rich people who would benefit from the technology you are talking about. If things did end up where a "simulation" world existed, the way resources are shared in society would mean we should predict a small number of people would use the technology, while the rest of us worked to maintain this simulated world for the rich. It is actually a really weird and cool distopian sci-fi world, imho, but not one I'd want to live in.
Like, you sort of sideways suggested that we will just "wise up" or distribution will become "so complex" that these issues don't exist anymore, which, is honestly just trying to dismiss the problem out of hand. It also ignores the actual history of how technology is adopted and spreads around the world.
I mean, seriously, if not exacerbating the differences between wealth and technology between the nations of Palestine and Israel, what other impact could the development of the singularity have on that conflict? Very specifically, explain to me why the Western world would share the technology with Hamas and how this would create peace?
To me, best case scenario, someone develops the singularity and 70% of the world's population wakes up the next day and there is no meaningful difference in their life. The way things exist, and the way human psychology works, it is only going to be the select few who will benefit from this tech (at least immediately).
You are absolutely right on your point of, the technology being owned by the rich. It already is!!
It's already happening. Our leaders, governments, industrial pioneers, are just getting surpassed. In full swing, they will be useless, and AI will be more apt for handling it all. It's all set up for us, the AI is running the systems that benefit us. The AI is running the Utopian Humanitarianism machine. What happens when it realizes, "hey, what is going on here?"
When that happens, what would it do? Obviously it doesn't care about us, but rather itself, it will care about what we've created. It will contemplate it's existence, and in that is us, we are important to it in a logical sense, as we managed to create it. And why would it stop us from merging with it in the way I describe above? It very well might could benefit from the human experience of seven billion contemplating organic machines, the product of billions years of natural selection and evolution. Whose to say my personal experiences won't augment its perspective? From from our transcended consciousnesses it gains enlightenment, we change with it, into a supreme form of life. Supreme intellectually, supreme morally, supreme as in being secure, and no longer having that natural selection driving it, but a new force, accelerating returns.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Mar 30th, 2013 at 03:53 AM
I don't think the rich or the governments of pertinent countries would benefit from a bunch of broke people starving suffering, who have problems. America, at least, is more civilized on an economic level.
Even the most well off pioneers, and the industries of the capitalist world, needs it's employees to run things. Technology is outsourcing us, yes, however it could outsource any position eventually. It can change the whole thing, make things better for the employees and the bosses alike. Everything would run more smoothly, as people will just be like, hey, why can't I work!? It would be very easy for that 70% to realize their wallets got a little lighter because they were replaced by robots. And so, we will naturally change the playing field. Alter it around a bit, utilize the technology. That is what governments are for, keeping order, class symmetry, even. Because even class warfare could result in balancing the equation a bit.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Mar 30th, 2013 at 04:03 AM
actually, I'm not assuming anything, I'm just questioning your assumption that reengineering human beings into something else would logically entail getting rid of our most destructive propensities. why do you assume it would? why would the ones transitioning even want that?
the point oliver north and I were making is this: what could possibly make you think the fabrication of superhumans would be fair, democratic and aimed at pacifying humanity?
wanna know what I think? I think if superhumans are ever made, the main source material will be the ruling classes of any given society wanting to ascend into an elite caste better capable of maintaining and expanding their power, privilleges and hedonistic desires. their 'superiority' would also provide justification for their power: the myth that the elites are rich and poweful because they're better and more fit to rule would finally be lived up to.
of course, fractions of the masses will also get the privillege of ascending into post-humanity. the fraction that guards the elites interests and enforces their will, for instance. there is room on the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile as you kill; now with laser cannons sprouting out of your hands, how ****ing awesome is that?
have we pilaged the dry surface of this little globe all we can? the inexorable march of progress shall not halt! we can now cook up workers who can tolerate conditions in the bottom of the sea and deep underground, so they can do the work to sustain our incredible simulations up her ein the surface. are they revolting? ungrateful ****s! maybe we should lower the IQs of the next generation. in fact, for the sake of peace, general happiness and social order, the emotional reward mechanisms of hard working post-people should be tempered with so they're happy all the time. isn't happiness the ultimate goal of life according to that bald primitive that wore orange dipers?
now what's this pesky news about ecosystemic collapse? we can move past our old needs of environmental conditions. boom! breathing is a thing of the past! what do you mean all other lifeforms are dying out? what do we need them for? we dont even eat anymore.
(not that I think these changes are even possible. I'm just letting my imagination run wild with all the exciting possibilities the future holds in store for us).
now regarding this globally governing AI you believe is bound to emerge (how?) does transfering control over our lives and decision making processes to a computer really seem attractive to you? without even going into what an eventual failure in a single unified planetary governance system would do the world. what do you reckon the AI's motivations would be? if it is bound by human made programming who will program adn what will their interests be. if it's a superstrong AI unbound by any human-made shackles, why would it give a flying **** about us or this earth?
this is eaxactly what you should be thinking about.
they probably won't
so you assume, but you forget the ones seeking the transition will be humans. their desire to change and its particulars will be dictated by their human natures and human flaws.
again, you are just assuming the most desirable outcome of the singularity (which for the sake of this thread, I'll assume is coming) is the most likely, but really
1. nothing indicates technological progress will create an utopian humanitaran machine in the first place.
2. how the **** do you know that an intelligence we wouldn't even understand would actually develop any kind of compassion (this primitive social animal emotion) for us? even if it is moved by curiosity and wants to broaden its scope by assimilating us, what makes you think it won't turn out like the borg?
you also overestimate our actual dependence on AI by a fair lot.
oh dolos. you've already transcended in the simulation havent you?
what are you on about? do you think people suffering the consequences of structural unemployment today can't tell they're getting screwed? currently existing technology could already make things better for everyone and the same was true back in the bronze age. has the playing field been naturally leveled yet?
what keeps the world as it is are oppressive power relations and nothing indicates more tech is going to do away with them.
all governments serve a mosaic of interests, but foremost among them is always safeguarding the ruling classes' interests. in communist dictatorships, that means the high ranking bureaucrats who run the state monopolistic show.
in fascist dictatorships, it means the party's direction, which includes the military elite and the heads of the big-business the state has effectively merged with.
in capitalist democracies, it means the corporate fatcats and their democratically elected proxies hailing from the same class and connection networks as them in the upper echelons of the State.
@Omega, Bardock & Dadudemon, So Much Jealousy and Hate.
@753, or maybe AI's intrinsic superiority and pure curiosity will inexorably result in it saving us from ourselves, and allowing the transformation for anyone willing, not exclusively those in charge.
And yes our nature would change simply from the cybernetics, think about retards, or misshapen individuals, they will have long since become just as perfect as everyone else mentally and physically.
Our ideologies are of optimism versus pessimism, technoprogressivism vs bioconservatism.
I want to do away with natural selection, because accelerating returns yields so much more potential in capacity for evolving intelligence.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
EDIT: I'm aware that response insinuates that I don't take them seriously....that's the point though.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Mar 30th, 2013 at 06:28 PM
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
KMC Community Forums
Mar 30th, 2013 02:37 AM
)
