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Keeping Joker Alive: A Stupid Move?
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Traction
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not at all Batman could have stopped the Joker from killing therefore hes responsible. 1 or 2 times or even several but Joker and Batman have done this 100s of times. Also Batman has no problem with killing other lifeforms.


Batman isn't responsible for what the Joker does at all. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

And if your referring to Darkseid, like someone above posted, "anyone in their right mind would try to kill Darkseid".

Despite his rules, even Batman realized that.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2009 07:19 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Heap
Batman isn't responsible for what the Joker does at all. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.



Yeah they are but when you are responsible for stopping ciminals from hurting and killing people you are responsible for stopping the criminal. Sorry that logic doesnt work at all, some people actual have some responibility to other people.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2009 07:45 PM
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willRules
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah they are but when you are responsible for stopping ciminals from hurting and killing people you are responsible for stopping the criminal. Sorry that logic doesnt work at all, some people actual have some responibility to other people.



But we aren't talking about any example, it's specifically Batman vs Joker. Are you saying if Joker kills someone, it's Batman's fault? Because by that logic, nobody else who was capable stopped Joker. By that line of reasoning it's everyone fault with the possible exception of Joker, if they fail to stop Joker from killing.

That to me sounds illogical and morally redundant. It's Joker's fault, not Batman.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2009 06:31 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by willRules
But we aren't talking about any example, it's specifically Batman vs Joker. Are you saying if Joker kills someone, it's Batman's fault? Because by that logic, nobody else who was capable stopped Joker. By that line of reasoning it's everyone fault with the possible exception of Joker, if they fail to stop Joker from killing.

That to me sounds illogical and morally redundant. It's Joker's fault, not Batman.


Im not even sure if I got all that. Not everybody has the power to stop the Joker but Batman has therefore its his responsibiltiy. I don't see whats so complicated.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2009 09:49 PM
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Traction
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not even sure if I got all that. Not everybody has the power to stop the Joker but Batman has therefore its his responsibiltiy. I don't see whats so complicated.


Whats to stop Comm. Gordon from capping Joker? Or Nightwing from putting him in hospital?

Hardly Batman's fault. Joker doesn't have a label above his ass saying "property of Wayne Industries".

Old Post Oct 7th, 2009 08:19 AM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Heap
Whats to stop Comm. Gordon from capping Joker? Or Nightwing from putting him in hospital?

Hardly Batman's fault. Joker doesn't have a label above his ass saying "property of Wayne Industries".


They are just as responsible as Batman, just because they haven't done it doesn't mean Batmans not responsible.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2009 05:08 PM
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Great move to keep Joker alive in the movie. I'm getting so sick of the villians always kicking the bucket at the end of the movie. It's getting to be such a repetitive formula.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2009 03:21 AM
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In the Dark Knight, if Batman kills the Joker, the Joker wins.

If the police killed the Joker in the Dark Knight, both Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes would've died.

Killing the bad guy destroys all your information on the guy.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2009 11:21 AM
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roughrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
........has NOBODY read Kingdom Come? erm


There you go. Kingdom Come showed Magog killing a helpless Joker in public, in front of police who had him in custody, and was found Not Guilty by a jury. Because you're not going to find a jury who will convict you for killing the Joker - that's how much the public fears and despises him.
I understand Batman's motives and need for rules, but there are exceptions to every rule.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2009 05:59 PM
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Nemesis X
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So everyone will hate Batman if he kills Joker, the psychopath who has murdered their friends, family and neighbors? That is so retarded. Why oh why did DC writers make their comic universe so stupid? I suppose if Superman kills Darkseid, everybody will give him the finger? Gay!


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2009 02:24 AM
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sylvanelf
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Sense and Logic in Comics

Note: Short attention spans, please move to the next post.

The DC Universe is written in a recognizable way to us, in that the overall structure of reality is intact, the physical world maintains the same look and feel, and people are people (more or less). We can assume that there is gravity and physical substance and hunger. The things we take for granted in the real world are present, but not typically as a centerpiece in comics.
Also present are fantasy elements to make the stories appealing to readers. We read because amazing things happen in comics, not because the content matches real life so well. Even characters like Batman who aren't superhuman are fascinating because they still achieve "amazement" levels through their intellect, determination and resourcefulness.
The reality and fantasy in comics are meshed by writers who don't necessarily have a complete and thorough understanding of their topics in the real world, and therefore have to contrive justification for what happens via the fantasy elements. Additionally, they write within the framework of comics being a business. They have a job. Stories must be written, but deadlines must be met so that comic books can be sold. Neither a consistent and accurate characterization nor maintenance of continuity are entirely possible. We talk about CIS and PIS to cover these very things.

So a discussion about how Batman should handle the Joker must be done within the context of it being a comic book story written by people in the real world who want to continue to have jobs. Is Batman's logic about killing going to be absolutely sound?
It's easy enough to look at one element of a character and make a decision about what "ought to be done", and even if that decision is justifiable on its own, the impact to the rest of the comic book world in which that character lives has to be taken into account. The writers are effectively the (albeit, imperfect) gods of their comic book universes, which you might look at as a struggling pantheon, since they each have control only over certain characters and themes. But they have to consider the butterfly effect of those characters' actions, and the more major the action, the worse the effects would be.

I mean, holy crap. Trying to juggle what's exciting, cool, intriguing, reasonable, in-character and consistent ain't easy. Of course they screw it up sometimes, but such a major move like Batman (or anyone) killing the Joker takes some serious consideration.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2009 05:16 PM
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Mr Parker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
Killing the Joker would cause a pretty outrageous fan reaction. Even if he was killed he would be brought back with some sort of stupid excuse. So its pointless. Though I do agree they should at least make some plots where Joker IS actually on deathrow.


exactly.thats why The Burton Batman movies suck because they betrayed the comics with him killing his arch enemy The Joker.In Real life that would be smart to kill the joker if this really went on, but it would disgrace the comics and the new Batman movies if Batman ever killed the joker like he did in those disgraceful Burton Batman movies because Batman hates to kill.Even in the early Batman comics when he originally did kill,he only did so when there was no other way out.The Batman in the comics would have tried to save Joker.He wouldnt have let him fall to his death like that and he would never cause him to fall to his death like that either. mad


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2010 05:57 PM
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darthmaul1
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In Tim burtons batman, it's not as if he threw him off the building and killed him.


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2010 06:36 PM
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Mr Parker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthmaul1
In Tim burtons batman, it's not as if he threw him off the building and killed him.


I know that but like i said,he made no attempt to even try to rescue him.Thats not Batman.


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2010 06:43 PM
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Tron
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
I know that but like i said,he made no attempt to even try to rescue him.Thats not Batman.


Well, to be fair, he was kind of busy making sure a certain blonde didn't fall to her death. But yeah, Batman totally killed Joker.


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Old Post Jul 28th, 2010 10:46 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tron
Well, to be fair, he was kind of busy making sure a certain blonde didn't fall to her death. But yeah, Batman totally killed Joker.

Technically the ground killed him.
I think Burton was trying to make it as dark as possible. And didn't batman use a gun in the early comics? But then they changed it. Look at it this way lotr movies weren't done exactly the same as the books but they were close. So you can read the books and get a slightly different expwrience than watching the movie.


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Last edited by darthmaul1 on Jul 29th, 2010 at 01:09 AM

Old Post Jul 29th, 2010 01:06 AM
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Mr Parker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthmaul1
Technically the ground killed him.
I think Burton was trying to make it as dark as possible. And didn't batman use a gun in the early comics? But then they changed it. Look at it this way lotr movies weren't done exactly the same as the books but they were close. So you can read the books and get a slightly different expwrience than watching the movie.


Yeah he did use a gun in the early comics and shot and killed people but even then,he only shot and killed people when he had to and there was not other way.that was the thing that was stupid about Batman 89 is it wasnt realistic.He killed the Joker and he should have been wanted for murder at the end regardless of The Jokers past actions.

Instead they treated him like a damn hero even though he murdered his goons in that warehouse dropping that bomb in front of them like that.In Batman Begins he didnt kill anybody and he was STILL wanted by the police.THAT was realistic.the Batman from the comics would have had his batmobile go in and release sleeping gas or something like that.That was an instance where he could easily have avoided killing but did not do so.Batman works with the police,he isnt allowed to take the law into his own hands and kill people as he wishes.

The Burton movies were not Batman movies at all.They more like a James Bond flick.Having a licence to kill.He also recklessly endangered the lives of civilians when he was in his batplane and he shot those bullets at the joker and missed him.There were civilians there and he could have EASILY had one of those bullets richochet and kill them.

Also Batman had already saved Basinger and had her put away to safety,so he still killed him not even trying to save him like he could have.Like I said before,regardless of the jokers past actions,he still killed him and he still should have been tried for murder at the end.


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Last edited by Mr Parker on Jul 29th, 2010 at 11:24 PM

Old Post Jul 29th, 2010 11:18 PM
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