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Home » Movie Franchises » Star Trek » Federation GROUND force vs USA Ground force

Who wins (please give a reason other than "They're more advanced!!!!" or "USA rules!"
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Federation SLAUGHTERS 7 70.00%
Federation barely wins 1 10.00%
USA SLAUGHTERS 2 20.00%
USA barely wins 0 0%
Total: 10 votes 100%
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Federation GROUND force vs USA Ground force
Started by: Hewhoknowsall

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Doctor-Alvis
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Also, tricorders.


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2010 08:42 PM
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BruceSkywalker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Because...



well lets see... phasers, phaser rifles.. Data and Worf taking care of business which being flanked by riker and possibly la forge.. then shittlecraf/runabouts can destroy from above..


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2010 07:43 AM
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Darth Truculent
Truth is written in Blood

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Simple tactic - U.S. ground forces ambush. Sniper kills the guys holding the tricoder and bullets begin flying. Half of ST troops are cut down in less than two seconds. Landmines blow off legs and grenades do the rest of the work. Superior technology does not always mean victory.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2010 04:55 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Simple tactic - U.S. ground forces ambush. Sniper kills the guys holding the tricoder and bullets begin flying. Half of ST troops are cut down in less than two seconds. Landmines blow off legs and grenades do the rest of the work. Superior technology does not always mean victory.


So, in other words, the Federation ground forces are stupid? That is not how they are portrayed in the TV show and movies. They would first pound the battle field from orbit, then beam down elite troops to set up force fields. They would then beam down normal troops and support. The outcome: U.S. ground forces captured or killed. Federation ground forces? 0 casualties.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2010 05:38 PM
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BruceSkywalker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Simple tactic - U.S. ground forces ambush. Sniper kills the guys holding the tricoder and bullets begin flying. Half of ST troops are cut down in less than two seconds. Landmines blow off legs and grenades do the rest of the work. Superior technology does not always mean victory.


you are also forgetting that nothing will harm Data so once he takes everything the US troops have, then Worf, Riker, and the rest of the Away Team will simply destroy the Us troops


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Thanks Steve... The Darkside of the force...

Old Post Mar 26th, 2010 09:42 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Simple tactic - U.S. ground forces ambush. Sniper kills the guys holding the tricoder and bullets begin flying. Half of ST troops are cut down in less than two seconds. Landmines blow off legs and grenades do the rest of the work. Superior technology does not always mean victory.

The tricorders would prevent the ambush though. And if they're using everything they've used in visual mediums, they may be invisible too.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2010 03:42 AM
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Hewhoknowsall
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, in other words, the Federation ground forces are stupid? That is not how they are portrayed in the TV show and movies. They would first pound the battle field from orbit, then beam down elite troops to set up force fields. They would then beam down normal troops and support. The outcome: U.S. ground forces captured or killed. Federation ground forces? 0 casualties.


The thread specifications say that no space forces are allowed.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
you are also forgetting that nothing will harm Data so once he takes everything the US troops have, then Worf, Riker, and the rest of the Away Team will simply destroy the Us troops


Who said that Data is in this?


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Old Post Mar 28th, 2010 10:27 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The thread specifications say that no space forces are allowed...


That really doesn't make any difference. It just makes the battle last longer.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 02:32 PM
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BruceSkywalker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall



Who said that Data is in this? [/B]



if you have ever watched star trek TNG you'd know that 90 % of the time Data was always on away missions...


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Thanks Steve... The Darkside of the force...

Old Post Mar 30th, 2010 11:48 PM
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Darth Truculent
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A .50 caliber can easily destroy Data. It can burn through tank armor. Can't remember the name of the Episode or what season, but the Jem'Hadar actually overran a Federation position during a ground engagement. Where were the Federation's vaunted shields? Phaser rifles were used as clubs. Where were the Federation held their position there were numerous casaulties.

If the Army attacked a Federation position, Federation troops would be overrun and destroyed. Sorry guys - the Federation is not a militaristic society and would lose.


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Old Post Apr 9th, 2010 06:36 PM
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Doctor-Alvis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Where were the Federation's vaunted shields?

The plot probably ate them.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2010 07:16 AM
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Acrosurge
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Can't remember the name of the Episode or what season, but the Jem'Hadar actually overran a Federation position during a ground engagement. Where were the Federation's vaunted shields? Phaser rifles were used as clubs. Where were the Federation held their position there were numerous casaulties.
You're talking about the Ds9 episode "The Siege of AR-558". The Federation army in question was a tiny group tasked to occupy a distant Dominion communication outpost. This group had not been resupplied, restocked, or supported by Starfleet. They had no resources and were facing the Jem Hadar (soldiers superior to US troops in every way). That is a completely different scenario from the one described in this thread. If anything, it actually proves the resilience of Federation troops for them to have survived for that long without resources or tactical support.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2010 02:07 PM
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Darth Truculent
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A flash grenade would stuns the hell out of anyone. A grenadier fired from a M4-A1 Grenadier would kill or wound a lot in the area. A unit like a squad of Rangers or Green Beret would overrun the position. I'm not saying it would be a push over, but the U.S. military is more disciplined and a better fighting force. Federation troops would not be used to automatic weapons fire like the SAW.

By the way, thanks for the name of the episode.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2010 07:18 PM
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Acrosurge
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
A flash grenade would stuns the hell out of anyone. A grenadier fired from a M4-A1 Grenadier would kill or wound a lot in the area.
A single photon grenade launched by one Federation soldier and guided by a single tricorder could stun (or kill if so desired) everything within a couple thousand meters of the blast. Photon Grenades have a range of two to three miles. That's just one, hand-held, single-man weapon.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
A unit like a squad of Rangers or Green Beret would overrun the position.
How would they get close? With tricorders, the Feds would know exactly where they'd be coming from and could eliminate them, either with TR-116s, photon grenades, or transporters. And even if they got close, a single phaser set to wide spread could vaporize an entire squad in a single shot.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
but the U.S. military is more disciplined and a better fighting force.
This is debatable, since we've never seen Starfleet's elite soldiers in action, only their naval/star forces. Regardless, the US Military will have to overcome a severe technological advantage and will have to do it without any sort of communications (which Tricorders can easily jam). The US Military would also have to overcome a total loss of any computer-assisted tactical weapons, as tricorders have been shown to hack 20th/21st century technology with ease.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Federation troops would not be used to automatic weapons fire like the SAW.
Starfleet has fought against many races with automatic weapons that possess greater firepower than the SAW (the Jem'Hadar and the Remans are just two races off the top of my head). Not only that, but since most Fed phasers can emit a continuous stream of firepower for as long as the "trigger" is held, this would make them the superior to any SAW. SAWs cannot stun. They cannot vaporize armored targets. They cannot be set to cover a wide area.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2010 01:19 PM
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Darth Truculent
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Shoot and scoot is the special forces tactic - .50 caliber sniper rifle from over a mile away and who ever is ever is manning a tricoder or a photon grenade launcher is dead. Automatic projectile weapons fire is very noisy. A light or RPG is as dangerous as a photon launcher.


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"Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame . . . whatever the cost"

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Old Post Apr 15th, 2010 06:10 PM
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BruceSkywalker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Shoot and scoot is the special forces tactic - .50 caliber sniper rifle from over a mile away and who ever is ever is manning a tricoder or a photon grenade launcher is dead. Automatic projectile weapons fire is very noisy. A light or RPG is as dangerous as a photon launcher.



bullets will do nothing to Data except bounce off

after all the bullets are gone the U.S Military is toast as they nothing to compare to tricoders, phasers/rifles


let me also say that Data is very very fast and can evade lasers so he will also evade the bullets as well


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Thanks Steve... The Darkside of the force...

Old Post Apr 15th, 2010 10:02 PM
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Acrosurge
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Shoot and scoot is the special forces tactic - .50 caliber sniper rifle from over a mile away and who ever is ever is manning a tricoder or a photon grenade launcher is dead.
A tricorder is an active and passive scanning device that can pinpoint lifeforms from hundreds of miles away. The Feds will know exactly where a sniper would be hiding and exactly what kind of gear he/she is carrying. Snipers could not surprise them. Basically, the Feds will know the US Army's deployment. Not only are they outmatched technologically, but US forces will not be able to communicate with each other (Tricorders can block all electronic equipment or hack it and every Fed soldier would be carrying one) and any computer controlled or assisted equipment will be compromised. I'm not sure you understand how huge a handicap a lank of communication AND computer hardware would be for the military.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Automatic projectile weapons fire is very noisy. A light or RPG is as dangerous as a photon launcher.
Noise would make absolutely no difference for Fed troops that have been seasoned by the Dominion War.

According the resources I looked at, RPGs have a range of less than 300 meters and a blast radius of 7 to 10 meters. Photon grenades have a range of 2 to 3 miles and blast radius of hundreds of meters and could be guided by tricorders for pinpoint accuracy. Photon Grenades >>> RPGs.


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Old Post Apr 16th, 2010 01:27 PM
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Darth Truculent
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A .50 round burns through TANK armor and TANK armor is far denser than Data.

About tricoders, you know the location of the individual, but can you see him or her? Special forces units operate in squads like the Rangers or Green Beret. I'm not talking about a full scale assault right now, but a special forces probe would determine the strength of the Federation position before the main attack commenced.


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Old Post Apr 16th, 2010 10:50 PM
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Acrosurge
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
About tricoders, you know the location of the individual, but can you see him or her? Special forces units operate in squads like the Rangers or Green Beret. I'm not talking about a full scale assault right now, but a special forces probe would determine the strength of the Federation position before the main attack commenced.
A tricorder uses 235 physical and electromagnetic sensors to collect data and could provide the exact location and composition of enemy troops, regardless of the terrain mentioned above. So, yes, they can "see" incoming enemies with the precision to launch pinpoint photon strikes or transporter actions. No special forces could get within hundreds of miles of the Feds.

Tricorders could also be used to project holograms of Federation troops in different locations. Without sensors, the US military would have no way of distinguishing these holograms from the real thing.


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Last edited by Acrosurge on Apr 17th, 2010 at 01:21 PM

Old Post Apr 17th, 2010 01:11 PM
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Darth Truculent
Truth is written in Blood

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Thermal sighting my friend. Special forces customize their weapons and a thermal sight is one of the more favored. Yes a tricoder can pinpoint the exact location, but the slug would already be fired. If it was fired from a .50, the target would most likely be the man or woman manning photon launcher.

I'm quite sure that Federation forces could not survive battles like Mogadishu, Tora Bora, Panama and other ops that the military doesn't tell us. It's a question of superior technology vs superior military training. What type of hand-to-hand fighting is the Federation trained in? Rangers, Green Beret, SEALS, Delta Force, Air Force PJs can kill a person in seconds. I would bet money that a fully trained SEAL can kill a Jem'hadar or a Klingon in hand-to-hand.


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2010 07:00 PM
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