so, tell me, how does one discuss terrorism, then, if there is no way to define it?
also, you are ignoring that there is an abundance of academic research that is not stifled by such considerations.
I also conceded that there is no absolute definition of terrorism, then quoted that to you.
EDIT: to this last point, there is also no absolute definition of "red"
__________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
The targetting of military personell can be made to deter others from joining the military. Thus attempting to damage the resolve of a country to fight by convincing people not to join the military for fear of violence even in areas they would deem to be safe, such as homeland bases.
Thus terrorism.
Of course, we don't yet know what Major Nidal Malik Hasan's motivations were. It may well simply be that he was mentally ill (as is often the case with people who commit these types of atrocities). If it turns out that it was genuine and deliberately thought out actions that were in revenge for US policies in Iraq and Afghanistan then it's terrorism. If it's a reaction to the alleged bullying he'd been the victim of for being a muslim then it's no different to high school shooters who commit their acts under a justification of revenge for whatever stupid personal reason they say.
not particularly, though you did dodge the question.
You said it is not impossible to talk about terrorism, yet you are claiming we cannot define terrorism in any way except for the fact that it is violent.
how is this possible? or is the extent of your discussion about terrorism to simply repeat that there is no definition of terrorism?
__________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
I might disagree. Targeting the military of a nation in such a way strikes me more as asymmetrical warfare more than terrorism. Simply an adaptation that weaker military forces have had to make in order to compete with more powerful forces.
I do see the point, and clearly it is a gray area, and different attacks would be more or less obvious.
If Mr. Hasan's motives were in fact to scare people away from joining the military, sure, that could be terrorism.
you would define any military operation in which a civilian is killed terrorism then?
as best as can be pieced together, the attack was not targeting civilians. Also, there are many civilians employed by the military, and a distinction between civilian employed by the military or whose job brings them in close proximity to the military and a proper soldier might be too pedantic for the discussion.
__________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
__________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
J'ai besoin de vivre
De vivre devant moi
Ceux qui m'aiment me suivent
Je sais toi tu restes là
J'ai besoin d'aimer
Je ne sais rien faire d’autre
J'ai besoin d'aimer
Et n'est pas ta faute C'est ma faute à toi...
In the photo he looks like a slightly fatter Krist Novoselic
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
A terrorist is an individual or member of a group or government who subscribes to the idea that acts of violence against either military or civilian targets or both are a legitimate form of political, religious, and/or social protest or public policy with the primary causative factor being fear with removal of those perceived as enemies and agitators. It can be used as either a revolutionary tactic, a military tactic, or official or unofficial social policy to maintain control over a population by creating fear of or perceived dependence on an illiberal governing body or leader.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
how detailed do you want? I've admitted 3 times directly and implied in a 4th that an unambiguous definition is nearly impossible.
Basically, however, I'd say it is an action for which the motive is symbolic rather than material or psychological, the symbol fostering fear and terror in the minds of the victims and the greater community the victims belong to.
If you want me to get any more specific, give me an example you want me to discuss.
__________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
He's a shrink who worked as a grief counselor for returning soldiers...and then went nuts. Sounds like a movie pitch, don't it?
Unlike most American mass-shooters, this one didn't off himself, so maybe the investigators will be able find out things, assuming he's not a total nutjob who's foaming at the mouth, rocks back and forth and doesn't recognize other humans.
DJ's is more detailed, but we are making the same general points.
Given he had just written that, and that I feel strict definitions of terrorism allow for more examples that don't "fit the mold", so to speak, I decided to give a heuristic rather than a formal definition.
Given what we know of Hasan at this point, he does not meet DJ's definition any more than he does mine.
__________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
KMC Community Forums
Nov 6th, 2009 10:17 PM
